Kata Containers: Virtual Machines that feel and perform like containers

Re:Kata Containers: Virtual Machines that feel and perform l... by cogman10 on Monday July 17, 2023 @12:08PM (#36759943)

> but the fixed memory allocation which means you must first know and then allocate the maximum amount of memory they might ever need up front.

Yup, that's always been the big reason to use containers for me. Startup time and runtime performance are nice benefits, but the memory usage is the giant win. Freeing memory in response to the apps need and also not needing extra memory for running the various OS parts and pieces.

The down side is, of course, security. But that was always the case with containers.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Kata Containers: Virtual Machines that feel and perform l... by tracker1 on Monday July 17, 2023 @12:16PM (#36760043)

I think in the longer run, WASM might displace a lot of both in practical terms.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Kata Containers: Virtual Machines that feel and perform l... by ehutch79 on Monday July 17, 2023 @12:21PM (#36760115)

Why would wasm replace containers? If you're going to run a binary why not just compile it for the local system?

We've always had 'compile once, run anywhere' but there's always been caveats and gotchas.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Kata Containers: Virtual Machines that feel and perform l... by bombela on Monday July 17, 2023 @12:34PM (#36760318)

wasm targets the wasm runtime Virtual Machine (ie: a JavaScript VM). Offering fine grained isolation compared to virtualizing the whole operating system.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Kata Containers: Virtual Machines that feel and perform l... by meepmorp on Monday July 17, 2023 @01:07PM (#36760874)

You could say the same thing for anything that targets JVM or CLR, and they're far more mature than any JS runtime.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Kata Containers: Virtual Machines that feel and perform l... by outworlder on Monday July 17, 2023 @04:11PM (#36763387)

Or even Lua, which is trivial to sandbox.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Kata Containers: Virtual Machines that feel and perform l... by skybrian on Monday July 17, 2023 @02:08PM (#36761824)

Something still compiles a WASM binary for the local system. Possibly, being able to optimize the WASM without recompiling it from source might be a win? Not needing separate binaries for ARM and x86 is nice, so it should run on a Mac more easily. Also, it runs on an edge server or in a browser, even on a phone, if you care about that.

I don’t think it will replace Docker files since they let you package up such a wide variety of existing server software and WASM is more limited. But if your software does compile to WASM then maybe you don’t care about that.

I think of WASM more like a plugin format, but I expect there will be a lot of engineering effort put into optimizing it, like happened with V8 for JavaScript. Not all web standards win, but betting against one that’s well-established and has a lot of support seems like a mistake.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Kata Containers: Virtual Machines that feel and perform l... by wongarsu on Monday July 17, 2023 @02:02PM (#36761698)

For serverless (as in AWS-lambda-like) I agree. In that usecase WASM provides a better security barrier than containers, with faster cold-start time (which is really important for the scaling promise of these services).

For the stuff people run on their Kubernetes clusters I have more mixed expectations. Containers are more universal, but I can totally see a microservice architecture running as a lot of WASM runtimes with a handful of containers.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Kata Containers: Virtual Machines that feel and perform l... by cogman10 on Monday July 17, 2023 @09:05PM (#36766433)

Particularly in the case of Amazon lambdas, those are running in VMS already (firecracker). Why wouldn't you skip the VM and use a static binary from rust instead?

[ Parent | on HN ]