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Re:Could an Industrial Civilization Have Predated Humans on ... by EdwardDiego on Saturday July 15, 2023 @12:20AM (#36733426)
Serious question, do we know that metal tools were used for those carvings?

From what I recall, until iron/steel was invented, it was pretty much abrasion as bronze was not hard enough to chisel nearly every stone.

Re:Could an Industrial Civilization Have Predated Humans on ... by siriaan on Saturday July 15, 2023 @12:42AM (#36733607)
The bedrock around Göbekli Tepe is apparently limestone, so saith Wikipedia, so no, metal is not required to carve it.
Re:Could an Industrial Civilization Have Predated Humans on ... by dr_dshiv on Saturday July 15, 2023 @03:29AM (#36734453)
Stonehenge is much harder stone—and carved from “hammerstones.” Crazy the effort it took.
Re:Could an Industrial Civilization Have Predated Humans on ... by mrangle on Saturday July 15, 2023 @01:24AM (#36733839)
Abrasion carved both the high relief sculptures and cut the megaliths from which they arise?

Perhaps, I suppose. I don't know enough about the physics and control of the abrasive techniques referenced. Though, I'm always in favor of emphasizing plausible variables that weaken a hypothesis.

What are the chances that abrasion work like that, hypothetically, was so specialized and unknown in 10,000 BC that Gobekli Tepe's high relief sculptures are the sole examples of that period and the earliest examples of such large and truly technical work? Nevermind the artistic skill that is reflected.

Cro Magnon was carving anthropomorphic stone statuettes in the region of modern Germany in 40,000 BC.

Food for thought: the Tell archaeological sites that dot the Fertile Crescent, which includes the Haran area (Gobekli Tepe), contain the most concentrated evidence of human technological firsts that seems to exist. Including evidence of earliest metalsmithing tech, if I remember correctly. See Yarim Tepe for a jumping off point.

So the situation is:

a. Stone carving predated Gobekli Tepe by at least 30,000 years b. The earliest known stone carvings were not in the region of Gobekli Tepe. Implying that stone carving culture and tech was known far outside of Mesopotamia, from an extremely early period. c. Gobekli Tepe's specific accomplishments are the first evidence that we have of such advanced sculpture and megalith construction skill. d. Metalsmithing arose in the immediate regions and cultures that included the area of Gobekli Tepe.

So on one hand we have widespread tech suggested to be responsible for highly technical stonework in one area, and on the other we have specific tech (metallurgy) arising out of that same area.

It could be a coincidence, but arguably it would be a large one.

Re:Could an Industrial Civilization Have Predated Humans on ... by AlotOfReading on Saturday July 15, 2023 @02:01AM (#36734025)
They were not. The primary stonework technique was almost certainly pecking [1], where you take a small "hammer" and whack it against the stone, pulverizing a bit at a time. This leaves a characteristic surface you can observe on the pillars today. However, the Gobekli Tepe builders were a bit smarter than just carving everything from scratch. They made use of the exposed limestone layers to quarry materials that were roughly the right shape and thickness.

[1] https://stonetoolsmuseum.com/technique/pecking/

Re:Could an Industrial Civilization Have Predated Humans on ... by sigg3 on Saturday July 15, 2023 @02:14AM (#36734084)
People who shout about ancient aliens and hidden technology always completely ignore that the people in the past had access to the most advanced machinery available: humans.

Add time to that, so that your project can have a scope of generations, passing down knowledge gained from a lifetime of doing this particular thing, the results become unsurprising even.

Amazing, inspiring and ingenious but also unsurprising.

Re:Could an Industrial Civilization Have Predated Humans on ... by fsloth on Saturday July 15, 2023 @04:15AM (#36734691)
Yeah, human craftmanship can reach really, really complex heights.

I guess industrialization has made lot of people oblivious to this fact.

Re:Could an Industrial Civilization Have Predated Humans on ... by inglor_cz on Saturday July 15, 2023 @02:47PM (#36739771)
Metal is too precious to be just abandoned. Metal is usually recycled, even in our civilization.

Whatever metal objects from ancient civilizations we know, are either grave goods (swords of warriors etc.), or were found in shipwrecks etc., or were found in destroyed settlements, plus a few accidentally lost (fell into a well etc.). But most metal objects get recycled.

Re:Could an Industrial Civilization Have Predated Humans on ... by EdwardDiego on Sunday July 16, 2023 @01:03AM (#36743851)
That's a very good point.