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Re:Debate over 'fake work' in tech industry misses the real ... by cmrdporcupine on Monday July 10, 2023 @10:59AM (#36667422)
That doesn't always (or usually) work in some of these BigCorps. It's not that they don't give you freedom to go ... do stuff -- they often do -- but there are also are often very concrete boundaries about who is allowed to actually have the stuff they do go into any kind of production codebase. And very rigorous review processes, etc. and often the first question in a code review on something exotic and new at a place like Google is: Where is the PRD / design doc for this? (aka who approved this)..

They are often not environments promoting spontaneous contributions, especially not not at the L3/L4/L5 aka lower part of the promotion ladder.

That and corporate survival / promo at these places really depends on "demonstrating impact", which, well, at the lower levels... can come down to sticking with doing what someone more senior than you expected you to do, taking ownership of it, and etc etc.

The reality is that many of the people spinning their wheels like this should just leave and go find a new job. But that's awfully hard to do when you are making sometimes twice as much as what a more "meaningful" job in e.g. a startup or small company can offer. Or when you're on an H1B, or you need certain medical care, etc. etc. etc.

Re:Debate over 'fake work' in tech industry misses the real ... by snide on Monday July 10, 2023 @12:18PM (#36668531)
I appreciate your comment and think it's very truthful (speaking as someone who has worked in a bunch of different environments). I think your last point though is the most important. There's still personal agency in the situation (though you do give realistic outliers when it can be tough).

I think it's mostly the tone I don't like about this article. It speaks to a defeastism that feels infectious at the moment. It feels very contrary to the normal spirit of communities like HN, which overall I've witnessed being someone positive.

Re:Debate over 'fake work' in tech industry misses the real ... by mike_hearn on Tuesday July 11, 2023 @10:16AM (#36681303)
It was many years ago but when I was at Google I started a new project in my 20% time and then took it all the way to production, it's still there and handles millions of requests per second because it's integrated into many of their biggest products (it wasn't a standalone thing). Yes, I had to write design docs, do PRDs, do privacy reviews, get launch approvals and many other things. Sometimes I had to integrate the project with other people's codebases myself. But, so what? These things had a purpose. The design doc for this project was dozens of pages printed out, it was my pride and joy.

I recall reading at the time comments on HN saying things like, 20% projects don't really exist, or that it's impossible to launch things at Google because of all the approvals you need. And then I went back to launching a 20% project into production.

If you do really care about making a project fly then filling out forms, getting people on board and getting approvals won't stop you.

Re:Debate over 'fake work' in tech industry misses the real ... by cmrdporcupine on Saturday July 15, 2023 @11:14PM (#36743182)
If I cared that much about a project that I'd fight bureaucracy and stupid paperwork to make it happen and work overtime and push myself like crazy... why would I give it to Google?

For the decade I was there, I couldn't honestly think of something I'd want to put that kind of effort into so that some human-dialtone like Sundar could cancel it later, or some pushier and better organized person could take credit for it.

But I have certainly thought of them after I left.