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Re:Farmer ordered to pay >$92K after confusion over meaning ... by s1artibartfast on Saturday July 08, 2023 @11:13AM (#36645166)
Knowing and having worked with several farmers I have a little bit more mixed opinion on the ruling. Many of them prefer to operate without contract, eg, I'll deliver the goods but I won't sign your docs.

This case seems to turn on weather any of these past contracts were actually binding, and maybe they were if there was a clear enough response.

However,if both parties have crappy business processes that run without signatures, I would think that disputed signatures would default to non binding.

>Had he insisted on a more formal process in prior negotiations with SWT, I doubt the judge would have granted summary judgement in this case (and SWT probably wouldn't have assumed the thumbs up was a signature).

Similarly, if SWT had insisted on signed contracts, there wouldn't be any question of if these terms were accepted.

It seems like there is at least some contribution here.

Re:Farmer ordered to pay >$92K after confusion over meaning ... by lolinder on Saturday July 08, 2023 @11:17AM (#36645218)
The judge addresses this question and found that neither party disputed that the past contracts were in fact contracts:

> So in short, what we have is an uncontested pattern of entering into what both parties knew and accepted to be valid and binding deferred delivery purchase contracts on a number of occasions. It is important to note that each time Kent added to the offered contract “Please confirm terms of durum contract” and Chris did so by succinctly texting “looks good”, “ok” or “yup”. The parties clearly understood these curt words were meant to be confirmation of the contract and not a mere acknowledgement of the receipt of the contract by Chris. There can be no other logical or creditable explanation because the proof is in the pudding. Chris delivered the grain as contracted and got paid. There was no evidence he was merely confirming the receipt of a contract and was left just wondering about a contract.

Re:Farmer ordered to pay >$92K after confusion over meaning ... by s1artibartfast on Saturday July 08, 2023 @11:47AM (#36645492)
So I agree with part of that and disagree with part of that.

The part I agree with is that giving a thumbs up too the specific request to “Please confirm terms of durum contract” is acceptance.

The part that doesn't sit well with me is the argument that past performance of delivery alone validates a contract.

I think I agree with the decision, but it is because the farmer affirmed agreement to the terms each time, not because making a delivery implies that existence of a contract.

Re:Farmer ordered to pay >$92K after confusion over meaning ... by lolinder on Saturday July 08, 2023 @12:47PM (#36646159)
It's not just making the delivery, it's receiving a contract and confirming it, making the delivery according to the terms of the contract, and receiving the payment spelled out in the contract.

There was a formal contract that was sent and the terms of that contract were held to after the farmer said "ok", and the farmer never denied that he intended to be held to the terms of the contract that he had been sent. It's pretty clear to me that everyone involved believed there was a contract in the prior cases.

Re:Farmer ordered to pay >$92K after confusion over meaning ... by s1artibartfast on Saturday July 08, 2023 @04:33PM (#36648438)
I feel like I am beating a dead horse here, but I dont think I am debating anything you are saying or the final judgement.

I am highlighting a specific part of the judgement: how much delivering and receiving payment demonstrates contract agreement in a vacuum.

Delivery is evidence that "yups" signified contractual agreement. Delivery absence the "yups" should not be construed as evidence of contractual agreement, at least the full terms specified.

Imagine a counterfactual without the "yups" but where Chris simply responded with "I will deliver the flax at that price".

Re:Farmer ordered to pay >$92K after confusion over meaning ... by lolinder on Saturday July 08, 2023 @05:41PM (#36649050)
What part of the judgment are you responding to? I didn't notice any part of the judgment that talked about delivery in a vacuum, it was always about the combination of factors.
Re:Farmer ordered to pay >$92K after confusion over meaning ... by s1artibartfast on Saturday July 08, 2023 @08:47PM (#36650278)
Maybe in my opinion was a little bit colored from the comments in this thread before reading the judgment. From your excerpt, The Following part is stood out to me.

>There can be no other logical or creditable explanation because the proof is in the pudding. Chris delivered the grain as contracted and got paid. There was no evidence he was merely confirming the receipt of a contract and was left just wondering about a contract.

To me this makes it sound like a pattern of behaving in accordance with one term in a contract can only be explained by agreement with the contract in its entirety.

Re:Farmer ordered to pay >$92K after confusion over meaning ... by lolinder on Sunday July 09, 2023 @12:13AM (#36651442)
It's generally a mistake to take a few sentences from a legal document out of context. In the context of even the paragraph I cited (much more so in the document as a whole) it's clear what the judge is saying—he's talking about a combination of the text exchanges and the subsequent actions.
Re:Farmer ordered to pay >$92K after confusion over meaning ... by bawolff on Saturday July 08, 2023 @11:24AM (#36645287)
> Many of them prefer to operate without contract, eg, I'll deliver the goods but I won't sign your docs.

But that's prerty clearly a contract. I agree to deliver goods in exchange for money, is still a binding contract even if you never sign anything.

Re:Farmer ordered to pay >$92K after confusion over meaning ... by zugi on Saturday July 08, 2023 @02:54PM (#36647565)
It is a contract but not necessarily the contract. The proposed written contract may have more terms and conditions. By buying and selling without a signed contract, you're agreeing to basic price and quantity without having to read and agree to a potential litany of other terms. Like what happens when you buy something from a store.

So it may not be relevant for this case, but in general buying and selling without a contract saves you from having to pore through legal details.

Re:Farmer ordered to pay >$92K after confusion over meaning ... by s1artibartfast on Saturday July 08, 2023 @03:11PM (#36647703)
And some of those contract terms can be more or less favorable to one party than what a could would decide in the absence of an explicit contract stating otherwise.
Re:Farmer ordered to pay >$92K after confusion over meaning ... by Ferret7446 on Sunday July 09, 2023 @01:34AM (#36651858)
So basically they prefer "signing" to contracts that are poorly specified and where any disagreement (significantly moreso than a well specified contract) results in a lengthy and expensive legal process for both parties. Which is fine as long as they know what they're getting into.
Re:Farmer ordered to pay >$92K after confusion over meaning ... by s1artibartfast on Saturday July 08, 2023 @03:08PM (#36647679)
Yes, but the specific terms and conditions are not specified and you have to fall back on general law instead of contract enforcement.
Re:Farmer ordered to pay >$92K after confusion over meaning ... by FredPret on Saturday July 08, 2023 @12:49PM (#36646177)
But contracts are about agreement, not signatures.