- Hypocrisy. Smartphone bans are pushed by people who use them all the time themselves. [Because they are adults not kids]
- This is the same thing as with corporations locking down employees' computers. It's a policy designed for the worst behaving kids to the detriment of the best behaving ones. Poor use of time and poor self-control become expected and even the best kids will slide towards these low expectations. [employees are not kids, also employees are not in school they are in a job]
- Totalitarian policies like this get passed only because teens and tweens are disenfranchised. Democratic government trying to enforce similar population-wide ban wouldn't last long. [Totalitarian policies? This has to be a joke]
- It's not about games or social media. Those are actually tolerated far better than apps like Socratic, which are treated like criminal level of cheating. This is technophobia all the way through. [Of course. It's not about games and social media, it's a about kids not using a cell phone while in the classroom]
It is the same thing if the computers are uncensored as they should be. Kids are supposed to be taught responsibility since early age. If it can be done for computers, it can be surely done for smartphones.
> Because they are adults not kids
As someone else detailed in comments, this is aimed at secondary education and up, i.e. young adults (teens and tweens) rather than children.
> Totalitarian policies? This has to be a joke
Think again what would happen if your government tried to enforce this against adults. Wouldn't you call it totalitarian?
> it's a about kids not using a cell phone while in the classroom
It's about kids not using any computing device in the classroom. 19th century education. As I have said, this is technophobia all the way through.
I’m 37 and discovered around age 32 that I used my phone too much. It had crept into my waking life over around 8 years and became a real problem. Today I use a lot of strategies to prevent this, and it’s still challenging to ensure I don’t use it too much.
Kids are surrounded by adults like me or even worse than I am. They use their phones so much, rarely to any useful effect, and they train kids to do the same thing. Adults reject advice or instruction to use their phone less, always certain that they don’t do it for any bad reasons and that they’re in control.
Yet they aren’t. It’s a widespread, chronic, and tragically influential problem. Kids are using their phones way too much, but they’re only mimicking what so many adults around them are doing.
Phones also help fill agency gaps in their lives by allowing them to entertain themselves and socialize without relying on an adult to make things happen. Taking that away is hard and genuinely removes something positive from their lives — especially from their perspective.
I know some adults are not hypocrites. These days I’d like to think I’m not, but I certainly was. I think we need to have a handle on that problem before we can ban phones for kids without reasonable pushback from them.
Expecting kids to abstain from using them in an area should mean adults don’t use them either, though I can imagine cases where it is warranted and makes sense. But, here I think the adult should be expected to only use the phone when warranted.
Perhaps this isn’t typical, but the teachers in my kid’s schools use their phones way too much. It sets such a terrible example. I can try all I want to make screen time intentional in my home, but they go to school and see people (including adults they’re supposed to trust) using their phones without much restraint. I went on a field trip with my youngest and was blown away by how much the teachers were disappearing into screens on a regular basis.
To me, that’s a complete failure to model good behaviour. If kids are growing up with that, who are we to arbitrarily tell them they have to do better?
Do you feel the same way about cigarettes?
Edit: if people want to smoke privately or without sharing second hand smoke, I don’t think they should be stopped. I’m not trying to say it should be outlawed or something. I just don’t like being around it or having it normalized to kids (or even adults — we shouldn’t accept it as something people do so casually, especially in close proximity to non-smokers).
If you are thinking of children as prison inmates that deserve the totalitarian treatment, perhaps you are doing something wrong.
Policies apply to secondary education, i.e. high school. You are an adult in higher grades of high school.
PS: I did mention some reasons: computer for every pupil, Socratic app (and others), maintaining high expectations, resisting technological regress in schools that are already backwards. Not that this would be an exhaustive list.
No?
What exactly is so difficult to understand about a school being there for educational purposes, and the smartphone directly distracting from that?
> No?
Err, are you living in a (relatively) free society? My country has this principle written in the constitution: people can do anything the law does not prohibit whereas the government can only do what the law expressly permits it to do. I would think that's the standard in democracies.
No, you cannot do whatever the hell you want at school or at work.
Smartphone is a universal computer. You can use it for a variety of tasks, including education. Schools are supposed to teach that rather than throwing students back into the stone age.
Smartphones (and computers in general) aren't just any tool. If used properly, they are powerful cognitive multipliers. Removing them from schools is like giving every student a lobotomy, because they aren't using their brain the way they are supposed to.
To make no bones about it: I'm currently a student. I've so far never seen a need to use my smartphone for an educational reason. I've often seen people who have phones out when the teacher is talking. There should be no debate about smartphone usage in class generally being distracting, potentially to people other than the users. You may not agree with the proposed rules, but you're vastly overstating your case.
Computers as a tool for educational purposes is different than a TikTok stream.
Adults using smartphones is different than children using them during learning periods. And for what it's worth, adults should use them less during work hours. In any case, this bullet point is no justification for letting kids use social media in school.
Corporations locking down work terminals is legally permissible and morally correct. Unless you like the idea of a computer illiterate bank teller downloading zero days to the internal network because they have some fundamental freedom to browse the web on company resources.
It isn't totalitarian, I disagree completely with the use of that term and with the implication that teenagers should have franchise at any level above local. Yes, school for children has different expectations than adults in an open society.
It is about games and social media.
But nobody is banning TikTok. All schools that do anything about smartphones are always banning smartphones as such. Nobody is showing the kids how to use computers properly nor is anyone expecting them to use them for anything but games and social. Schools are just giving up on the subject and closing themselves in 19th century world. The same TikTok justification would be used against school computers until they are locked down so much they cannot be considered universal computers anymore.
> Corporations locking down work terminals is legally permissible and morally correct.
And a reliable way to get rid of the best employees by optimizing the whole organization for the worst ones. This is schools we are talking about. Pulling everyone down to the lowest standard of behavior is clearly against schools' mission. Schools should be instead optimized for the best students and push everyone to be their best selves.
> It isn't totalitarian, I disagree completely with the use of that term and with the implication that teenagers should have franchise at any level above local.
This is a bit OT, but aren't teenagers smarter that pensioners in every way you can measure except vocabulary? Aren't teenagers emotionally, cognitively, and physically clearly closer to 18+ adults than prepubescent children? If so, what makes you think they aren't effectively adults? Anyways, prepubescent children don't get to vote for practical reasons, specifically because they don't care and because they are under strong influence of their parents. Neither reason applies to teenagers.
Or, that we remove the problem by removing the tool entirely and without inspecting the devices contents?
You talk about using computers properly, which is a noble goal, but the banning of phones in classrooms has multiple reasons behind it. One of which is the belief that social media and smartphone games are addictive. Should we teach kids how to smoke cigarettes responsibly during their lunch break?
As for what I mean by technophobic propaganda, just listen to yourself: "the belief that social media and smartphone games are addictive". People aren't stupid. Psychological trickery can get games and media only so far. People crave a variety of experiences. It's not that hard to keep students' attention either by offering an interesting subject, by listening and being honest (for a change), or just by being there as a parent or teacher.
- There's supposed to be a computer in front of every kid since grade one. Schools are instead banning the little computers kids smuggle in.
- Hypocrisy. Smartphone bans are pushed by people who use them all the time themselves.
- This is the same thing as with corporations locking down employees' computers. It's a policy designed for the worst behaving kids to the detriment of the best behaving ones. Poor use of time and poor self-control become expected and even the best kids will slide towards these low expectations.
- Totalitarian policies like this get passed only because teens and tweens are disenfranchised. Democratic government trying to enforce similar population-wide ban wouldn't last long.
- It's not about games or social media. Those are actually tolerated far better than apps like Socratic, which are treated like criminal level of cheating. This is technophobia all the way through.
I could go on and on about this. Contrary to people nitpicking details (health, parent contact, practicality of enforcement), I think this is fundamentally wrong.