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Re:Passwords Are Fine by stevage on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @07:34AM (#36585278)
I'm glad they said it.

As a user I just despise MFA. I hate having to keep my phone with me while I work. I hate the disruption in flow logging into everyday services like AWS.

Passwords are so much better.

Re:Passwords Are Fine by highwaylights on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @07:41AM (#36585353)
But MFA is not supposed to replace your password. It’s in addition to it, and if it’s implemented correctly, only on new devices.

Once you’ve done the second factor dance on a new device once, and assuming the MFA setup has been done well, you shouldn’t need to reach for the MFA code again (at least, not often).

Re:Passwords Are Fine by blackhaz on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @07:52AM (#36585447)
In reality, the vast majority of services ignore that principle and MFA is a never-ending daily nightmare. It feels like I can't even take a leak without the phone now.
Re:Passwords Are Fine by jeroenhd on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @09:01AM (#36586091)
There's absolutely no reason why you'd need a phone for most services. TOTP generators exist for every device and every platform. Some password managers even automatically copy a TOTP code after autofilling a password field.

Of course, you'd lose most security benefits of TOTP, but if all you want is to ignore security concerns and log in without a phone, there are tons of ways to accomplish this. Just set up authy or krypt.co and be on your way.

IMO the MFA codes aren't even the problem. The fact that you need to reauthenticate multiple times per week is the real issue. Session tokens valid for longer than four hours seem to be considered a sin in most big tech companies for some obscure reason.

Re:Passwords Are Fine by naniwaduni on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @12:29PM (#36588938)
Realistically speaking, the vast majority of the security benefit of TOTP in the wild is "the user doesn't get to choose a weak password", followed by "the persistent secret isn't getting sent over the wire"; being an additional "factor" is faaaar in the distance.
Re:Passwords Are Fine by jeroenhd on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @03:05PM (#36591228)
I think the advantage is that users suck at picking passwords, refuse to learn how to use a password manager, so TOTP is there to make sure that even if people set Welcome2023 as their password, some credential stuffer can't log in to their remote desktop because they need an extra six digits to log in.

You'll get the best security if you don't have the TOTP secret on a device that also contains your passwords, just in case you get hacked, but even with TOTP on-device it provides a little bonus security.

Re:Passwords Are Fine by mechhacker on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @07:41AM (#36585349)
It took over a year of mandatory 2fa w/ phone app before they stopped making us change our password every month.

At least my password isn't changing anymore but I never understood that policy if you made a strong password. It was overkill.

Some websites still require it though, and that's nonsensical and annoying. Just randomly generate one and keep it in a password manager.

Re:Passwords Are Fine by stevage on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @07:42AM (#36585358)
Maybe a fair choice would be you either have a super long password or you use MFA.
Re:Passwords Are Fine by black3r on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @07:41AM (#36585352)
In my opinion 2FA is one of the best use cases for a smart watch, and at least Authy supports that use case, it's so much better than to look where I put my phone...
Re:Passwords Are Fine by k8sToGo on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @07:36AM (#36585301)
Of course you despise it. Security always comes at the cost of convenience.
Re:Passwords Are Fine by Cupprum on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @07:42AM (#36585357)
Security is inconvenience, therefore the role of security is to find where is the limit. Because afterwards users will start to search for shortcuts, which usually makes the systems even less secure.
Re:Passwords Are Fine by stevage on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @07:44AM (#36585380)
I don't despise all inconvenient things. I don't mind carrying house keys. It's just a question of whether you value the security enough to make it worthwhile.
Re:Passwords Are Fine by NoZebra120vClip on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @07:51AM (#36585438)
> I don't mind carrying house keys.

House keys are a minimal inconvenience because the lock on your front door also affords minimal security. Just ask the Lock Picking Lawyer how long it would take a determined intruder to get into your home, whether by picking, force, or finding a weakness such as open window.

If your home had high security, I can guarantee that you'd feel the inconvenience.

Re:Passwords Are Fine by pclmulqdq on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @08:16AM (#36585649)
You can have a very secure facility that only uses a "house key"-style entry flow for the user. The key will look really weird (see Medeco and Evva for examples) and the building will have some design compromises - few entry points, no openable windows, etc.

A password, in theory, could work the same way. Except that the normal password UX involves people remembering the password, which entails a huge security compromise.

Re:Passwords Are Fine by NoZebra120vClip on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @08:23AM (#36585706)
> no openable windows

Yep, I'd call that a significant inconvenience (for a home that someone like me lives in).

Re:Passwords Are Fine by stevage on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @09:09AM (#36586176)
Personally I'd be fine with password restrictions like 16 characters minimum etc etc. Still better than MFA.
Re:Passwords Are Fine by stevage on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @09:03AM (#36586115)
Indeed. But hopefully that was the tradeoff I had chosen.

MFA irritates me because usually it isn't my choice.

Re:Passwords Are Fine by NoZebra120vClip on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @09:11AM (#36586204)
MFA has some sort of calculated irritation built into it.

Part of it consists in the incredibly varied ways it can manifest. I could receive an SMS code, an email code, I could generate a TOTP code (choice of two Yubikeys), I could use U2F/FIDO (choice of 3 Yubikeys), I could get a Magic Link, I could use Sign in with Google, I could punt and use a code on my emergency backup paper. Don't forget to pass a CAPTCHA, and your password probably expired while you were away, as well.

Of course this all transpires after I've unlocked my password manager's vault, which has its own style of 2FA security, its own timeouts, and its own UI/UX quirks.

So you can see the sheer dizzying possible mutations of the MFA flow. Sometimes you don't even know what they'll hit you with until you try to log in!

What amuses me is "We sent a code to your email. This message will self-destruct in 10 minutes." when email used to arrive on the scale of 5-7 days if the server was overloaded or busy. Oftentimes I find myself racing multiple timeouts to run the gauntlet of MFA in whatever way has been mandated.

Re:Passwords Are Fine by Mordisquitos on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @08:07AM (#36585585)
Those who would give up essential Security, to purchase a little temporary Convenience, deserve neither Security nor Convenience.

    — Frankmin Benjalin
Re:Passwords Are Fine by CaptainFever on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @08:32AM (#36585802)
Security with the cost of convenience comes with the cost of security.
Re:Passwords Are Fine by api on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @08:09AM (#36585596)
Lol. That’s 99.9% of all users especially if you consider privacy a subset of security.
Re:Passwords Are Fine by jlmb on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @07:44AM (#36585381)
But you can also use passkeys from a computer, no separate mobile device needed!

And for services (like AWS) that don't (yet) support passkeys, a hardware token like a YubiKey is also an option.

Re:Passwords Are Fine by riffraff on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @07:52AM (#36585445)
> I hate having to keep my phone with me while I work

I use a desktop app for most time based authentication tokens, there are plenty that sync up across mobile and desktop.

Re:Passwords Are Fine by NoPicklez on Wednesday July 05, 2023 @01:12AM (#36595747)
You despise MFA until it saves your arse
Re:Passwords Are Fine by stevage on Wednesday July 05, 2023 @07:33AM (#36598859)
Well, you probably never actually find out when that is.
Re:Passwords Are Fine by NoPicklez on Wednesday July 05, 2023 @11:55PM (#36611012)
There are certainly indicators of someone attempting to access an account that is behind MFA