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Re:Video: Power LED Attack [video] by breput on Sunday July 02, 2023 @03:23AM (#36559127)
This is solved by extending the constant time calculation principle to the CPU instruction level. Easier said than done, but probably only really necessary on HSMs or smart cards.

On a side note, the Computerphile[0] YouTube channel has an endlessly fascinating variety of computer science, theory, and history videos. A related channel that is equally worth following is Numberphile[1].

[0] https://www.youtube.com/@Computerphile/videos

[1] https://www.youtube.com/@numberphile/videos

Re:Video: Power LED Attack [video] by lloydatkinson on Sunday July 02, 2023 @06:35AM (#36560158)
I’m fairly sure it is also solved by having a decoupling capacitor for the LED too…
Re:Video: Power LED Attack [video] by yonatan8070 on Sunday July 02, 2023 @07:03AM (#36560290)
I'm guessing a capacitor would help negate this issue but it won't be possible to entirely eliminate the issue
Re:Video: Power LED Attack [video] by rolandog on Sunday July 02, 2023 @07:11AM (#36560337)

    // TODO remove ductape; temp fix of https://ia.cr/2023/923
Edit: Joking aside, capacitors and black tape are actual countermeasures:

    Fig. 15. A circuit that leaks information via its power LED (a). Counter-
    measures using a capacitor (b), an additional OPAMP (c), and an existing
OPAMP (d).

And:

    Consumer Side Methods. The attack can also be prevented
    by placing black tape over a device’s power LED.
Re:Video: Power LED Attack [video] by jacquesm on Sunday July 02, 2023 @08:56AM (#36561049)
or just snipping it.
Re:Video: Power LED Attack [video] by TedDoesntTalk on Sunday July 02, 2023 @10:15AM (#36561682)
Or simply manufacturers not using LEDs to indicate activity.
Re:Video: Power LED Attack [video] by sokoloff on Sunday July 02, 2023 @10:32AM (#36561828)
This is not an intentional indication of activity, but rather just of power.
Re:Video: Power LED Attack [video] by jacquesm on Sunday July 02, 2023 @12:52PM (#36563240)
They don't. The LEDs fluctuations are a by-product of power rail fluctuation and this in turn can be detected to discover some elements of the computations involved.

It's pretty subtle. This isn't like a flashing harddrive LED, it is an LED that to all intents and purposes is burning steadily. Until you look at it in more detail and you realize that it isn't quite as steady as it should be.

Re:Video: Power LED Attack [video] by qingcharles on Sunday July 02, 2023 @11:26PM (#36568381)
I'd at least solder another diode across the terminals if I did that. An LED is a diode at the end of the day and breaking the circuit might break the device.
Re:Video: Power LED Attack [video] by jacquesm on Monday July 03, 2023 @04:10AM (#36570166)
Not if it is just a power LED. No circuit that I'm aware of would break if the power LED wasn't drawing power. You'd have to go out of your way to make it that way.
Re:Video: Power LED Attack [video] by qingcharles on Monday July 03, 2023 @08:51PM (#36580768)
Thank you for the clarification. I've not soldered anything for a couple of decades so my knowledge is poor.
Re:Video: Power LED Attack [video] by jacquesm on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @02:01AM (#36582754)
I did think that your approach is very thorough, 'change nothing' is a good principle.
Re:Video: Power LED Attack [video] by properparity on Sunday July 02, 2023 @10:15AM (#36561686)
A capacitor is a few extra cents on the bom which is a no go for profit maximizing companies.
Re:Video: Power LED Attack [video] by mikelovenotwar on Sunday July 02, 2023 @11:44AM (#36562545)
Dyson batteries are a good example:

Dyson vacuum batteries are designed to fail

* Series battery cells in a battery pack inevitably become imbalanced. This is extremely common and why cell balancing was invented.

* Dyson uses a very nice ISL94208 battery management IC that includes cell balancing. It only requires 6 resistors that cost $0.00371 each, or 2.2 cents in total for six.

* Dyson did not install these resistors. (They even designed the V6 board, PCB 61462, to support them. They just left them out.)

* Rather than letting an unbalanced pack naturally result in lower usable capacity, when the cells go moderately (300mV) out of balance (by design, see step 3) Dyson programmed the battery to stop working...permanently. It will give you the 32 red blinks of death and will not charge or discharge again. It could not be fixed. Until now.

https://github.com/tinfever/FU-Dyson-BMS

Re:Video: Power LED Attack [video] by tjoff on Sunday July 02, 2023 @11:54AM (#36562637)
That is not about saving cents tough.
Re:Video: Power LED Attack [video] by H8crilA on Sunday July 02, 2023 @11:44AM (#36562549)
No, it will completely eliminate it, if the capacitor is large enough. If you're super paranoid you can do the maths and compute how much does it cut off at such frequency ranges. It's likely to be a ridiculous value. And one does not have an infinite amplitude resolution in any measurement device.

Also, you can just power the LED from a separate voltage regulator. Which is somewhat likely anyways, as the IC will probably want a lower voltage.

(Don't get me wrong, it's cool stuff, but there's also a very easy solution.)

Re:Video: Power LED Attack [video] by dvwobuq on Sunday July 02, 2023 @01:27PM (#36563550)
It's a harder EE problem than you think. For example the Samsung Galaxy S8 was attacked by analyzing video footage of the power LED of Logitech Z120 USB speakers. Those were most certainly on a different power supply and the two were connected by a long wire.

There are circuit level solutions but the solution is not a $0.01 MLCC.

And once you solve the LED problem remember: The S8 was attacked by plugging in a peripheral to it’s 5V USB supply. Imagine if the peripheral was instead a high speed ADC that just measured 5V USB directly…

Re:Video: Power LED Attack [video] by husam212 on Sunday July 02, 2023 @12:32PM (#36563028)
Best solutions are the simplest ones, and this is the right one! It's an electrical coupling issue so I think it should be fixed electrically.