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Re:Kagi Raises $670K by imiric on Thursday June 29, 2023 @04:07AM (#36517718)
That's hardly a relevant criteria. HN consists of a niche audience of technical users already interested in startups and search technology. The real criteria is whether Kagi will be able to scale beyond a niche market, and establish a sustainable mainstream business. OP's question is valid, but it can't be answered by outsider speculation. Hopefully someone from Kagi is able to address it.

This investment is a good sign, though. I'm rooting for them. We need more competition in this space, and a proper business not hijacked by advertisers is always a good thing.

Re:Kagi Raises $670K by int_19h on Thursday June 29, 2023 @04:19AM (#36517793)
Why can't it be a sustainable niche business?
Re:Kagi Raises $670K by imiric on Thursday June 29, 2023 @04:59AM (#36518051)
True, it could be. I'm just not sure it can survive as such when its main competitors are billion-dollar corporations.

But maybe there's room for smaller search engines with alternative business models to compete with each other. marginalia.nu is another promising startup.

Re:Kagi Raises $670K by jiveturkey on Thursday June 29, 2023 @12:13PM (#36522438)
because they raised a SAFE
Re:Kagi Raises $670K by TeMPOraL on Thursday June 29, 2023 @05:10AM (#36518119)
You're forgetting that the "niche technical audience" has something marketers and influencers and other kinds of pushers don't: competence and credibility. And (not relevant here, but to plenty other products) control or influence over procurement process in SMBs, corporations, universities and government facilities.

Nearly all of us in the "niche technical audience" are the personal IT support departments of some subset of our family, friends, and their friends. They come to us asking for advice, or to set their computers/phones up, or to fix them after they "caught viruses". However begrudgingly we do that, it puts us in a position of power - they listen to and trust in what we say, and accept uncritically what we do to their machines. And, our interests are mostly aligned with theirs - even if we don't care about particular friend-of-a-friend's happiness, we'll still do them good so they don't have to come back with more issues any time soon.

This is how Google Chrome spread. This is how Firefox still survives. This is how several brands of anti-malware software spread - a mistake that's now difficult to undo. This is how AdBlock Plus became a thing, and how uBlock Origin is now replacing it. All these trends and more, I participated in first-hand. People still remember and follow advice I gave them over a decade ago (which isn't always good - see the anti-malware stuff).

And so is the case with Kagi, to a degree. I'm paid user for 1.5 years now, happy with the service. I recommend it in relevant discussions, I mention it to people who spot it - but since it's a paid product, it is a tough sell with general population. Still, I try to spread the word, like I do with any other good and non-user-abusive tool.

That said, this news makes me somewhat reluctant to recommend Kagi. I'll keep using it because it provides me immediate value for reasonable price, but taking investment often is a Faustian bargain. In this case it's not as clear as with regular VC backing, so I guess we'll see where this goes.

Re:Kagi Raises $670K by imiric on Thursday June 29, 2023 @06:06AM (#36518484)
I think you're overestimating the impact technical users have on the survival of a business. Word of mouth and technical influence inside SMBs and corporations can only do so much, especially for a business that doesn't have a corporate sales strategy.

> Nearly all of us in the "niche technical audience" are the personal IT support departments of some subset of our family, friends, and their friends.

How has that influence worked out for you so far? By that logic, all our family and friend circles would be running Linux, using OSS, and be more mindful of their privacy. IME my attempts at convincing others to use the tools that I use has mostly been met with lukewarm response, or even arguments in favor of the tools that they already use. Convincing someone to change their computing habits is not just a matter of being considered an expert in the field.

Google Chrome spread because it had the resources and influence of a billion-dollar corporation, and the marketing budget to reach millions of users. Firefox is barely surviving, and most of it is due to its corporate contracts, not because of its technical audience.

Re:Kagi Raises $670K by carlosjobim on Thursday June 29, 2023 @10:39AM (#36520970)
> How has that influence worked out for you so far? By that logic, all our family and friend circles would be running Linux, using OSS, and be more mindful of their privacy.

Asking normal people to use Linux and OSS is a bit too much, but I think that Macbook sales have had at least a bit of help by being endorsed by the technical crowd.

Re:Kagi Raises $670K by TeMPOraL on Friday June 30, 2023 @10:08AM (#36535172)
And iPhones and iPad, too. They are what you recommend to your family members after one too many requests to "fix" a "virus" on their Windows PC or Android device.
Re:Kagi Raises $670K by sumedh on Thursday June 29, 2023 @07:47AM (#36519159)
> HN consists of a niche audience of technical users already interested in startups and search technology.

Isnt that how firefox got popular, techies started to use it and then convinced others to switch. Of Course in the end it was no match against Google marketing for Chrome.

Re:Kagi Raises $670K by carlosjobim on Thursday June 29, 2023 @10:24AM (#36520760)
> The real criteria is whether Kagi will be able to scale beyond a niche market, and establish a sustainable mainstream business.

Why? Even if they never get close to being as popular as Google, they can still have millions of paying users.