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Re:The bigger-is-better approach to AI is running out of road by indigoabstract on Sunday June 25, 2023 @03:18AM (#36465741)
I am pretty sure that my understanding of something (or lack of) is not encoded into words and probabilities. It's more like a feeling of "I got this figured out" or "I haven't grasped this".

Words seem more like a protocol to express some internal model/state in the brain and can never capture the entire actual state, only a small part of it. But since we're not telepaths, we obviously need to use words to exchange information.

Re:The bigger-is-better approach to AI is running out of road by Tenoke on Sunday June 25, 2023 @03:50AM (#36465889)
The feelings are just how the underlying probabilities are presented to the conscious part of your thinking.

You are clearly not consciously noting what your neurons are actually doing.

Re:The bigger-is-better approach to AI is running out of road by bemmu on Sunday June 25, 2023 @06:51AM (#36466873)
A feeling is an embedding?
Re:The bigger-is-better approach to AI is running out of road by roenxi on Sunday June 25, 2023 @04:27AM (#36466084)
If brains aren't a complex probability machine, how is it possible that people inconsistently get the same sort of math problems wright and wrong in an inconsistent manner? Or mis-speak?

It is undeniable that human reasoning is a stochastic process. Otherwise it wouldn't be reasonable for people to make mistakes after learning something. Especially inconsistent mistakes, like when we give people 10,000 addition problems to do in a row it'd be reasonable for them to get a few of them wrong.

Re:The bigger-is-better approach to AI is running out of road by n4r9 on Sunday June 25, 2023 @06:43AM (#36466829)
All of this seems possible in a deterministic system which evaluates whether or not to retain a piece of information based on past experience.
Re:The bigger-is-better approach to AI is running out of road by circuit10 on Sunday June 25, 2023 @06:58AM (#36466902)
LLMs can be deterministic too at temperature 0
Re:The bigger-is-better approach to AI is running out of road by williamtrask on Sunday June 25, 2023 @07:07AM (#36466949)
But they don’t work very well at temp 0. Better to seed your random numbers.
Re:The bigger-is-better approach to AI is running out of road by williamtrask on Sunday June 25, 2023 @07:06AM (#36466947)
Food for thought: randomness is in the eye of the beholder. It’s only random to you if you don’t know how to predict it. So can a mind ever truly be stochastic? Perhaps to the minds of others, but never to itself.
Re:The bigger-is-better approach to AI is running out of road by thfuran on Sunday June 25, 2023 @09:04AM (#36467800)
No, it's random if it can't be perfectly predicted with perfect knowledge.
Re:The bigger-is-better approach to AI is running out of road by fho on Sunday June 25, 2023 @07:07AM (#36466950)
> It is undeniable that human reasoning is a stochastic process

It can still be a deterministic process. If anything came out of the whole LLM story for me it is that I am even more convinced that it is.

My (somewhat educated, but still naive) idea why it looks like a stochastic process is that the brain gets incredible amounts of random input. We literally get bombarded with particles and energy ever instance we live, from photons hitting out retinas , molecules transferring "heat" energy into our skin to sound waves hitting our ear drums.

Ever noticed that you get more productive when you get up from your screen? Or how some people work better while listening to music? How you find your answer just as you start to explain it to a colleague?

I would argue that this is due to a limited "entropy" pool available to the brain. Just changing the input to the system replenishes the pool.

Re:The bigger-is-better approach to AI is running out of road by ruszki on Sunday June 25, 2023 @07:51AM (#36467248)
According to physics, it must be stochastic. The only question is distribution, and whether we can ignore outlier cases.
Re:The bigger-is-better approach to AI is running out of road by meroes on Sunday June 25, 2023 @08:43AM (#36467615)
Are you saying this because quantum mechanics is random in some interpretations and is our most fundamental theory?

That’s a bit of a stretch when we don’t actually know if QM is objectively random, but it could be sure. But then what about things like, is it random that 1+1=2. No…what are you really saying is random when a human answers this? I think even if you make the assumption QM is objectively random, thought is the hard problem after all and we might not want to jump so far head. Math certainly isn’t random and we can think about it.

Re:The bigger-is-better approach to AI is running out of road by hotstickyballs on Sunday June 25, 2023 @02:13PM (#36471086)
Brains are complex probability machines but doesn’t work only on language. It interacts with and learns from the environment, sets its own objective functions and tries to learn better.
Re:The bigger-is-better approach to AI is running out of road by JKCalhoun on Sunday June 25, 2023 @07:22AM (#36467056)
That human thought can't exist without language has been proposed by many great thinkers in the past. Someone who studies linguistics (or philosophy?) can probably cite examples.

As a crude anecdote, certain words when I learned them allowed me to think differently. Gestalt is one of those words.

Re:The bigger-is-better approach to AI is running out of road by zincly on Sunday June 25, 2023 @02:56PM (#36471448)
This begs the question, can a different language change the limits of human thought?

Interesting to think about and reminds me of the story by Ted Chiang.

Re:The bigger-is-better approach to AI is running out of road by RossBencina on Monday June 26, 2023 @03:49AM (#36476896)
Re:The bigger-is-better approach to AI is running out of road by pizza on Sunday June 25, 2023 @02:13PM (#36471085)
Sounds very much like {Matilde Marcolli, Noam Chomsky, Robert Berwick}’s brand new paper on the mathematics of Syntactic Merge [0]:

workspace :: nested forests of binary trees of syntactic structures (with no label order) (= here, thoughts and meanings are assumed to be composites of mental syntax objects that can be re-combined with others. Big assumption? Maybe)

externalization process :: some mental faculty that decides the order to use when outputting thoughts into ordered strings (eg vocalization of thoughts into sentences)

The thing is, you can put a probability theory onto anything that you can count or record states of. Of course, counting the external observations may lack the richness of the internal process. I feel that this linguistic program will work its way into a lot of future LM tooling, in some incarnation or another.

[0] https://arxiv.org/abs/2305.18278