As a climber, this is total hubris.

But in case I was not clear, there is surely no 100% certainty. Just like you cannot rule out a rock falling on your head. But you can minimize the risk with experience. There is a difference between climbing in sandstone vs. granite. And the type of sandstone, how much iron it contains(color). How wet it is, etc. Do you debate that?

And that's not to mention loose rock above you which you can't even see and that could rain down on your head. It takes a bird standing on a ledge knocking down a softball sized people for you to eat it in the noggin and fall, or wind, or just being at the wrong place at the wrong time (I've coreshot a rope when natural rockfall rained on me while climbing in a funnelling feature, shit was scary).

I did witness quite some things fall, also sometimes with me being under them. But the point of this thread was the theory, that freeclimbing is a certain path to death.

To which I disagree.

Unless of course we also say, that climbing with a rope is a certain path to death, because of all the things you cited and that will eventually happen to you, if you do it long enough. I mean, there was recently a whole mountain top collapsing in switzerland. There is nothing you can do, if that happens spontaneous and you are under it, rope or not.

Climbing with a rope is a certain path to falling.

Free soloing professionally is a certain path to falling to death, unless you stop free soloing first.

I'm not a climber. But reading this thread makes me think maybe the ability to make this distinction could be a kind of fizz/buzz for selecting climbing partners.

Yes. And if you miscalculated, you will still fall on a rock and break your back.

Or a sharp rock will cut the rope and you will fall to death.

Or the nut will come off and you will fall to death.

Or the material was bad and you will fall to death.

There are many ways climbing can go wrong (especially if you are inexperienced or careless, most accidents happen on easy routes). And I am quite sure, that the way I was doing freeclimbing, was way more safe, than what many casual hobby climbers are doing with a rope. That is quite often horrific. And this is what I meant with false security.

Dan Osman, Alaine Robert, Alex Honnold, Steph Davis, Catherine Destiville, Better Harrington, Hazel Findlay, Will Stanhope, Brad Gobright, Michael Reardon, Peter Croft, Dave McLeod and many others have all accumulated impressive free solo resumes, but did not die while free soloing. (Some of them died, but not from a free soloing fall)

There was Derek Hersey, who I guess isn't pro, but certainly was prolific. Among other very notable ascents is his triple route linkup on the Diamond of Longs Peak.

Ryan Triplett was a very well known climber in the PNW that died free soloing 15 years ago. Perhaps he would have more name recognition if still alive today.

There’s likely a number of semi-pros that didn’t live long enough to make the short list.

> As a climber, this is total hubris.

LOL. IMO GP is correct on the object level ("you can free solo with zero risk of being killed by a chossy hand hold") and you are correct on detail level ("if you haven't ripped a piece of choss off the wall by surprise maybe get more mileage outside of perfectly manicured de-facto-gym-crags").

Anyways, the point is that the choss risk is usually totally irrelevant. Most soloists don't solo on-sight. By the time you're soloing a route you usually know these sorts of details. TBH being killed by choss is way more likely belayed or at least on a rope because of the route-familiarity bias in soloing. My closest choss-related call was on TRS trundling shit.