Re:Debris field found in search for missing submersible
by jachee on Friday June 23, 2023 @02:57AM
(#36443699)
These aren’t people who applied to immigrate, following the prescribed process. They’re desperate people who are being literally smuggled across the Mediterranean to seek refuge in Europe.
How are they not refugees?
Re:Debris field found in search for missing submersible
by 4gotunameagain on Friday June 23, 2023 @04:18AM
(#36444182)
Illegal immigrant and refugee are different terms.
UNHCR:
Refugees are people who have been forced to flee their homes and have crossed an international border to find safety in another country.
Like the previous comment, you could argue that complex geopolitical circumstances "forced" these people to illegally immigrate, but then you could argue that everything is forced. You could argue that Europeans moving from one country to another because there is no work in their field are "forced". Are they refugees ? Prime Minister Shehbaz Sharif of Pakistan declared Monday a day of mourning for Pakistanis who died after a fishing boat
There is no immediate threat of life in Pakistan. They were not refugees.
Re:Debris field found in search for missing submersible
by fishoutofth on Friday June 23, 2023 @04:24AM
(#36444223)
I would argue paying a smuggler between $1,000 and $8,600 (quick google search) to hopefully get you across the sea (instead of selling you in a slave market) is a risk most people living in adequate conditions are not willing to take.
Re:Debris field found in search for missing submersible
by 4gotunameagain on Friday June 23, 2023 @04:36AM
(#36444291)
I did not claim that they lived in adequate conditions. I claimed that they were not forced to leave or that they did not have an immediate threat to their life. There are different terms for a reason. Because they are different things. Are pakistani people leaving their country the same as Syrians fleeing a warzone ?
Re:Debris field found in search for missing submersible
by fishoutofth on Friday June 23, 2023 @05:00AM
(#36444429)
Fair I probably interpreted your post uncharitably. It is not the same, but they are both worthy of empathy is my opinion. Often I see the distinction between "refugee" and "migrants" as used to indicate we should not have any sympathy for the people involved (not referring to your post).
Re:Debris field found in search for missing submersible
by austinjp on Friday June 23, 2023 @04:30AM
(#36444251)
> anyone that seeks a better future to avoid problems in their own country is a refugee, which could be a point of view but not one I (or dictionaries) agree with.
Um that's literally the definition of a refugee. Or perhaps your definition of "problems" needs clarifying?
Re:Debris field found in search for missing submersible
by 4gotunameagain on Friday June 23, 2023 @04:34AM
(#36444284)
Forced to flee
Were the pakistanis forced to flee, or chose to do so ?
Re:Debris field found in search for missing submersible
by austinjp on Friday June 23, 2023 @06:44AM
(#36445097)
I'm not following your point, or are you 'just asking questions'?
Pakistan is certainly a place some people would want to flee from, Malala Yousafzai being the most obvious example of the terrors that have happened there.
Re:Debris field found in search for missing submersible
by 4gotunameagain on Friday June 23, 2023 @07:32AM
(#36445429)
You simply cannot equate an attempted murder of an activist to full blown war or natural disasters. Do you remember Anders Breivik ? Can you claim that Swedish people moving abroad are refugees ?
Unless of course in your point of view anyone that seeks a better future to avoid problems in their own country is a refugee, which could be a point of view but not one I (or dictionaries) agree with.