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Re: by phpisthebest on Thursday June 22, 2023 @06:47AM (#36430219)
>>The US barely survived as a democracy under Trump.

what??

>>It was literally a matter of Pence refusing to play along and the secret service refusing to put Trump on the Capitol

Things that never happened for 1000 Alex....

Even if Pence has "played along" the outcome would have been the same, this narrative that the US was on the "razor's edge of democratic collapse" is insanity.

>>with a much weaker president.

The current problem has come about because for the last several decades (almost 100 years), and with an accelerated pace we have consolidated more and more power into the federal government at large, and the office of president via the creation of a massive administrative "4th" branch of government that should be unconstitutional on its face.

The problem is not who or what office has the power. The problem is power itself...

The only rational way to curb the corrupting influence of power is to limit it, and distribute it as far and wide as possible

Any concentration of power is bad

Re: by ethbr0 on Thursday June 22, 2023 @06:57AM (#36430296)
> Any concentration of power is bad

Multiple failed, weak democracies that were subsequently replaced by dictatorships, several in France, would beg to differ.

It's a balance between centralization (stability) and decentralization (individualism).

Too much of either is corrosive.

Re: by gwd on Thursday June 22, 2023 @07:11AM (#36430383)
> Even if Pence has "played along" the outcome would have been the same, this narrative that the US was on the "razor's edge of democratic collapse" is insanity.

All my friends in Classics, familiar with stories about how ancient coups worked, were terrified. You really think that if Pence had refused to certify the vote, and had instead "certified" some alternate set of electors, and Trump and all his faction had claimed uniform victory, that somehow the army & police and everyone else would have stood against it? At best we'd've had a civil war.

Re: by indymike on Thursday June 22, 2023 @07:51AM (#36430707)
> At best we'd've had a civil war.

The best part of that January was that a coup and/or civil war did not happen. The US got on with business. It could have went bad, but it did not do so.

Re: by Arainach on Thursday June 22, 2023 @08:05AM (#36430846)
A coup doesn't have to be successful to be a coup.
Re: by SideburnsOfDoom on Thursday June 22, 2023 @03:44PM (#36437684)
> The best part ... was that a coup ... did not happen

Strong disagree: a half-assed, incompetently executed, failed bank robbery is still classed as and prosecuted as "bank robbery", there is no separate legal category for "attempted bank robbery".

It's the same with a failed coup. "the coup failed pathetically" is categorically different from "a coup did not happen".