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Re:Thinking different. - A look into the mental illness of a... by thaumaturgy on Tuesday February 28, 2012 @05:21AM (#3642644)
Ironically, the article seems to briefly forget that we're dealing with a fellow human being here. How cruel is it to discuss him publicly, and diagnose him publicly? Do you think it's impossible that he'd end up reading any of this? How would that feel, to have a bunch of people discussing what they guess your health problems to be?

People generally cannot be helped unless they want to be. Sharing his personal information in some misguided attempt to "help" is not likely to turn out well. And unfortunately, as a practical matter, no community should be expected to tolerate a stream of senseless diatribes just because of the person writing them.

To some extent, everyone is responsible for their own well-being. Very few people completely lack any self-awareness; if you know you have a health problem, whether mental or otherwise, it is your responsibility to seek help. It's a responsibility you owe yourself, your family and friends, and society.

Other than that, we shouldn't be discussing people like this.

Re:Thinking different. - A look into the mental illness of a... by kristopolous on Tuesday February 28, 2012 @05:47AM (#3642697)
Hi I'm the author of the article. Thanks for your comment.

* I didn't post the article here and I wrote it in about 70 minutes; I had no intention of opening up this discussion in HN.

* All the information is very public, most of it authored by the gentleman in promotional materials.

* The article is about accepting and awareness. There's been much harsher words said about the individual and his project.

* The article is mostly in praise of his accomplishments.

* I have known very similar people and so this hit me on a personal level.

* As an article there's some general rules that yield a good read. I guess I could have been non-specific, or asked for consent of the family, I didn't know this was going to gain so much traction.

Re:Thinking different. - A look into the mental illness of a... by xd on Tuesday February 28, 2012 @05:56AM (#3642723)
You say this hit you on a personal level because you have known similar people .. I watched a close friend fall apart from mental illness who was an amazingly talented coder and I can say without any doubt that your article will do nothing but harm to this guy.
Re:Thinking different. - A look into the mental illness of a... by kristopolous on Tuesday February 28, 2012 @06:10AM (#3642750)
That's horrible. Should I just take it down? I mean really, I don't want to do anything bad like that. I could try to stay up and remove the stuff referring to him ... but I've been struggling to build context without using him as a concrete example.

Edit: I'm re-editing it now. (I should be in bed, ug tired)

03:45 I think it is a better job now ... hopefully you find it more acceptable; I'm starting to become a bit incoherent myself and need to catch a wink.

04:25 Just finished another round of editing. I do really hope everything is better. (4:50 still going ... )

Re:Thinking different. - A look into the mental illness of a... by jbrichter on Tuesday February 28, 2012 @10:58AM (#3643570)
If you're dead-set on publishing a lengthy article about somebody's private business, it at least behooves you to spend some time on it. You even managed to get his name wrong.

It is simply not true that the article is "mostly in praise of his accomplishments," either. There is a brief description of LoseThos at the start and a vacuous upbeat sentence about workflows and usability near the end. In the middle sits an illustrated description of Mr. Davis's antics and a rather uninformative discussion about how mentally ill people are mentally ill. You cap it off with a quote from the DSM describing behavior similar to his, and reflect that you can "understand and appreciate" someone's illness now that you have blurb, even one which says nothing more than "yeah, schizos do that sometimes."

The article, aside from rubbernecking at a mentally ill man, has almost no actual content. It seems you were more interested in telling a "tortured genius" story. You insinuate that mental illness would be some sort of creative advantage if only society were more accommodating, that his mental illness and his writing an operating system are somehow two sides of the same coin.

He's been unemployed and stuck at home for 7 years. I don't think it so notable that a programmer in that situation might do some programming. LoseThos is neat, but let's be level headed. Writing a basic kernel (and this one doesn't even have virtual memory or preemptive multitasking) and a basic compiler are both common projects for CS undergrads. To produce this over 7 years isn't some unfathomable feat, though I can't imagine being sick and medicated made it any easier. I absolutely don't mean to be critical of him, and the treatment he received on Something Awful was really unappetizing. But it does seem that you're building his accomplishments up a little. And it seems that you're doing it because you want to write a moving story and parade his personal tragedy through the streets like some nerd Oprah.

This post is too long already, but I also want to say your blaming the community's lack of acceptance for the progression of diseases is ridiculous and trivializes mental illness. Smiling and nodding at his PRNG won't make him better. Finally, your stamping the article with a little self-aggrandizing blurb about yourself and a link to your github account leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Re:Thinking different. - A look into the mental illness of a... by angersock on Tuesday February 28, 2012 @12:00PM (#3643843)
"Writing a basic kernel (and this one doesn't even have virtual memory or preemptive multitasking) and a basic compiler are both common projects for CS undergrads."

Did you notice the part where he also runs goofy JIT/linking, or has annotated source code with pictures and compiler for same, and that the virtual memory/preemptive multitasking was explicitly omitted? Or several other nifty/quirky features of the OS? (http://www.losethos.com/LTHtml/Doc/Features.html)

He's done work that any of us should respect as fellow programmers, crazy or not.

Also, his source comments are...colorful in some cases. :)

Re:Thinking different. - A look into the mental illness of a... by mattdeboard on Tuesday February 28, 2012 @08:43AM (#3643095)
Please do not take this down. This is the most interesting bit of writing I've seen come across HN in quite some time.
Re:Thinking different. - A look into the mental illness of a... by JoachimSchipper on Tuesday February 28, 2012 @06:25AM (#3642778)
I'm not entirely clear on what you hope to achieve, really. If you are trading off possible harm for this guy against something vague like "more acceptance of mental illness in the hacker community", I'm not sure the ethical calculus comes out in your favor. You probably know more than I do.

(OTOH, he's fairly public already, and I'm sure he's been called insane before.)

Re:Thinking different. - A look into the mental illness of a... by whateverer on Tuesday February 28, 2012 @10:24AM (#3643440)
Have you seen the kind of abuse that is dealt to Davis whenever he shows up, writing incoherent prose all over? He has come and gone on just about every programmer forum out there, even on 4chan's, and every single time he depleted the patience of their hosts and has been either banned, ran off the place or programmatically ignored, like here (or 4chan, with userscripts).

He is a public figure already, as you say so yourself, regardless of whether we can hold him responsible of it. If anything, this piece served to humanize him, and spreading knowledge of his condition may, at least, serve to secure better treatment for him from his peers.

Re:Thinking different. - A look into the mental illness of a... by rainboiboi on Tuesday February 28, 2012 @06:24AM (#3642777)
Well what's been said is already public. No point editing it.
Re:Thinking different. - A look into the mental illness of a... by kristopolous on Tuesday February 28, 2012 @06:31AM (#3642789)
probably about 75% of the would be viewers haven't woken up yet ... if things should be changed, now is the time.

Alright, I think most of the finger-pointing is gone. Hopefully it's better ... I need to get to bed.

Re:Thinking different. - A look into the mental illness of a... by meric on Tuesday February 28, 2012 @08:46AM (#3643101)
I read about him in comments after seeing his dead posts on HN weeks ago and I had the same conclusions. Your article makes a very important point about community intolerance.
Re:Thinking different. - A look into the mental illness of a... by rooshdi on Tuesday February 28, 2012 @07:23AM (#3642916)
If you didn't get consent to analyze this man in public, you should take it down IMHO. We should respect this man's personal life.
Re:Thinking different. - A look into the mental illness of a... by newman314 on Tuesday February 28, 2012 @06:31AM (#3642788)
Also, not to be snippy but if you are going to post an article, it is not that much more work to spellcheck.

Naming the person is probably not such a good idea. There's a reason why films insert those disclaimers that characters do not reflect a real person.

Re:Thinking different. - A look into the mental illness of a... by kristopolous on Tuesday February 28, 2012 @06:56AM (#3642857)
Did the spellcheck .. I do things in vim and dont have spellcheck turned on, sorry about that.

I also removed all references to his name except for the initial one where I cite him as the author of the software. I've also made more of the paragraphs general, trying to remove him as the focus of the article, and instead just as a topic.

Re:Thinking different. - A look into the mental illness of a... by antalbud on Tuesday February 28, 2012 @09:22AM (#3643216)
> As an article there's some general rules that yield a good read. I guess I could have been non-specific, or asked for consent of the family, I didn't know this was going to gain so much traction.

I think publishing an article like this is not only distasteful, I for one find it deeply disturbing. We all have a right to dignity.

You guess you could have been non-specific or asked for consent of the family? You bet.

Even if you claim you only tried to help, say that all the information is available publicly or even make efforts to edit it after publishing, discussing a fellow human being's mental condition this way is just morally wrong.

Re:Thinking different. - A look into the mental illness of a... by vixen99 on Tuesday February 28, 2012 @05:51AM (#3642712)
Going public means ....going public.
Re:Thinking different. - A look into the mental illness of a... by kristopolous on Tuesday February 28, 2012 @05:53AM (#3642717)
Yeah. I've only recently become good at it. Changes things enormously when you are no longer ignored.
Re:Thinking different. - A look into the mental illness of a... by zackattack on Tuesday February 28, 2012 @06:45AM (#3642831)
I thought your judgmental tone was totally inappropriate and definitely didn't serve the cause of "acceptance"; in other words, I don't buy it.
Re:Thinking different. - A look into the mental illness of a... by kristopolous on Tuesday February 28, 2012 @06:59AM (#3642868)
alright, give me the benefit of the doubt ... I want to make it right ... what would you suggest?
Re:Thinking different. - A look into the mental illness of a... by kiloaper on Tuesday February 28, 2012 @06:34AM (#3642800)
>Very few people completely lack any self-awareness; if you know you have a health problem, whether mental or otherwise, it is your responsibility to seek help. It's a responsibility you owe yourself, your family and friends, and society.

Clearly you've had the good luck to never have had to deal with any mental health problem ever. The problem with mental health problems is that when your mind isn't functioning properly, how can you be expected to diagnosis yourself and seek treatment? It's like expecting a broken robot to repair itself. For example, when depression robs you of all motivation and the very will to live, how can you be expected to recognize the symptoms and go out there and seek help?

Re:Thinking different. - A look into the mental illness of a... by AndyJPartridge on Tuesday February 28, 2012 @06:41AM (#3642821)
>when depression robs you of all motivation and the very will to live, how can you be expected to recognize the symptoms and go out there and seek help?

I, for one, didn't realise I'd become depressed. It took my partner and my best friend to take me to get diagnosed and treated.

On reflection, it's frightening to think I didn't realise.

Re:Thinking different. - A look into the mental illness of a... by jaryd on Tuesday February 28, 2012 @08:36AM (#3643078)
Amazing how common this is!
Re:Thinking different. - A look into the mental illness of a... by japhyr on Tuesday February 28, 2012 @10:43AM (#3643513)
Also, when people do find effective treatment there is a tendency to feel they are healthy, and cease treatment. This results in an endless cycle of being symptomatic and not getting help, getting help and managing mental health issues, and letting go of the help that is making someone healthy.
Re:Thinking different. - A look into the mental illness of a... by Nathandim on Tuesday February 28, 2012 @05:53AM (#3642718)
Exactly this. To think that doctors can diagnose a person over the internet is already far stretched, since some health problems need examinations, tests and proper studying about the nature of the problem and the ones that they do are doing it by using specific websites and they emphasize how they cannot do a proper diagnosis but just interpret the symptoms - not talking about psychological issues exclusively here.

But for members of community to point their finger saying "this guy has this, can't you tell?" is brutal. Just brutal. If you really care about a person's health (especially when it's psychological) you don't do this. Instead, you try to come in contact with him or family or at worst with some professional around his town and treat him with the dignity an ill human deserves to be treated. This feels like we're all discussing about him in the town square and when he comes by we'll just give him the stare while he walks around. How's that helpful?

Cruel? It's sick. Mo matter how much "socially acceptable" it is, it doesn't make it less wrong.

Re:Thinking different. - A look into the mental illness of a... by kristopolous on Tuesday February 28, 2012 @06:22AM (#3642773)
I'm working on an edit.
Re:Thinking different. - A look into the mental illness of a... by lwhi on Tuesday February 28, 2012 @06:58AM (#3642865)
With most things that can be seen as contentious, it's worth asking 'what good could come from this?'. In the case of this article, I think that people might be reminded to be more sympathetic when they encounter someone who is experiencing mental illness.

However, the way a person actually relates to their own experiences while classed as mentally ill is a personal thing. Lack of understanding is probably the biggest barrier - and well meaning sympathy isn't always going to have a positive effect on someone's well-being. It might actual just compound the problem.

I think there's an element of the freak-show here, because the guy who's the subject of the article is being used as 'exhibit a' in a discussion of what can manifest from mental illness. On the flip side - mental illness does seem to be an area of life that's rarely discussed openly.

Rather than stand by and look at the wreckage - it's probably more constructive to think about what can be done to help tackle mental health issues more generally. http://www.mind.org.uk/ is a UK-based charity who are doing good things in this area.

Re:Thinking different. - A look into the mental illness of a... by zerostar07 on Tuesday February 28, 2012 @05:30AM (#3642665)
Agree about the public disclosure, but disagree that a mentally ill person can be expected to be responsible for their own wellbeing. It's logically impossible. And btw medication works quite well.
Re:Thinking different. - A look into the mental illness of a... by rbarooah on Tuesday February 28, 2012 @05:50AM (#3642710)
It's only logically impossible if you have a binary definition of mental 'illness'.
Re:Thinking different. - A look into the mental illness of a... by DanBC on Tuesday February 28, 2012 @06:24AM (#3642776)
Mental health problems do make self-care a lot harder for some people. I agree that it's possible for many people with MH problems to seek appropriate care when they need it; or to have in place "rainy day action plans" to help other people spot times when help is needed.

But there are a few people who need help, but just don't think that they need help. It's judgemental and unhelpful to suggest that this small minority is somehow selfish or irresponsible for not seeking help.

Re:Thinking different. - A look into the mental illness of a... by zerostar07 on Tuesday February 28, 2012 @06:21AM (#3642771)
It would be hard to dismiss schizophrenia as a non-illness, what's your point?
Re:Thinking different. - A look into the mental illness of a... by shin_lao on Tuesday February 28, 2012 @09:36AM (#3643267)
Exactly. When talking about an ill person generally you just use the first name (more often not the real first name), and make sure it's not obvious who you are talking about.

I've read a fair share of psychiatric books and they all have this "rule".

The OP should at the very least edit out the name of the person and remove references to his work.