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Re:Rivian Joins Forces with Tesla, Embracing Their Charging ... by mustacheemperor on Tuesday June 20, 2023 @04:17PM (#36409876)
>I wish the government would prod manufacturers to create a common connection

That is exactly why this is happening. Tesla is expanding their network and opening it to more manufacturers in pursuit of a $7.5bn federal funding program.[0]

>the new rules, issued after nearly eight months of debate...seeks to give consumers unfettered access to a growing coast-to-coast network of EV charging stations, including Tesla's Superchargers.

>Companies that hope to tap $7.5 billion in federal funding for this network must also adopt the dominant U.S. standard for charging connectors, known as "Combined Charging System" or CCS; use standardized payment options; a single method of identification that works across all chargers; and work 97% of the time.

Interesting enough, Tesla is (currently) obliged to add CCS compatibility to their chargers for eligibility, but these manufacturers are adopting their connector regardless.

>The new rules would allow Tesla to keep its unique connectors, but it will have to add a permanently attached CCS connector or adapter that charges a CCS-compliant vehicle, similar to a gas pump that has a separate handle for gas versus diesel.

[0]https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/new-bi...

Re:Rivian Joins Forces with Tesla, Embracing Their Charging ... by nilsbunger on Tuesday June 20, 2023 @04:35PM (#36410117)
But will the CCS be as fast at charging ? It seems like Tesla could control a lot with their proprietary connector if it has a faster charge rate.
Re:Rivian Joins Forces with Tesla, Embracing Their Charging ... by recursive on Tuesday June 20, 2023 @04:54PM (#36410409)
The fastest chargers today are CCS.
Re:Rivian Joins Forces with Tesla, Embracing Their Charging ... by kristofferR on Tuesday June 20, 2023 @06:10PM (#36411396)
It's a wash, basically.

The fastest CCS chargers are ~360KW, and Tesla Supercharger V4 will apparently support 350KW within a year.

Re:Rivian Joins Forces with Tesla, Embracing Their Charging ... by recursive on Tuesday June 20, 2023 @06:47PM (#36411787)
Tesla always gets credit for stuff they're about to do. And half the time they don't seem to end up doing it. Or hit their dates. Don't get me wrong. Tesla has some great chargers. But they're great on their actual merits.
Re:Rivian Joins Forces with Tesla, Embracing Their Charging ... by deadbunny on Tuesday June 20, 2023 @07:11PM (#36412040)
Wait. It's a wash because CCS tech which has been out for like 5 years is comparable to some future Tesla project? Tesla the company who have consistently missed fantasy deadlines set by the edgelord-in-chief?
Re:Rivian Joins Forces with Tesla, Embracing Their Charging ... by pnpnp on Tuesday June 20, 2023 @08:28PM (#36412737)
Not that you’re wrong about self driving, but they have been light years ahead of the competition in other areas. I don’t think it’s fair to say that have “missed some deadlines” and generalize to this, when they’ve been a major contributor to bringing electric vehicles to the masses.
Re:Rivian Joins Forces with Tesla, Embracing Their Charging ... by recursive on Tuesday June 20, 2023 @08:41PM (#36412833)
> I don’t think it’s fair to say that have “missed some deadlines” and generalize to this, when they’ve been a major contributor to bringing electric vehicles to the masses.

It's absolutely fair. These are separate statements, and they're both true. Tesla has missed "some" (only some?) deadlines. And they've also brought EVs to the public. It's completely fair to say these because they're true.

Re:Rivian Joins Forces with Tesla, Embracing Their Charging ... by nameistaken on Tuesday June 20, 2023 @11:19PM (#36413971)
I see your comment, and I hear you but listen man...

Elon bad.

Re:Rivian Joins Forces with Tesla, Embracing Their Charging ... by BluePen7 on Wednesday June 21, 2023 @03:43PM (#36423358)
As a Tesla owner I agree they've accomplished a lot, but they've also promised us the world, by yesterday.

Until something is delivered, and bug-free, I don't really believe anything they say. They've done a lot, but their word is next to worthless.

Re:Rivian Joins Forces with Tesla, Embracing Their Charging ... by pnpnp on Thursday June 22, 2023 @11:07AM (#36433294)
I totally agree. I don't think there would be a push for NACS from other automakers if it isn't better, royalty free, and completely open.

I have Starlink as well - over promised, and under delivered _but_ it currently still has no competition in my area.

The difference is that Tesla now has competition, but they did still have some good ideas. If NACS really is open and free, I don't see the big deal.

Re:Rivian Joins Forces with Tesla, Embracing Their Charging ... by drewg123 on Tuesday June 20, 2023 @08:35PM (#36412787)
When the 350KW chargers are online and working, which is apparently not often, which is why this move to NACS is happening. Only Tesla is motivated to run a reliable network. The other problem with 350KW CCS chargers is that they are often clogged by slower charging cars that can't take advantage of the higher charging rate. Watch one of the "Out Of Spec [Motoring|Reviews|Podcast]" YouTube channels to see examples of this on their EV road trips.

This whole thing reminds me of the ancient unix story of the DoD test of TCP/IP implementations, where they were deciding between the BBN stack and the Berkley (BSD) stack. The result was something like, "The BBN stack starts off much faster, but it crashes often and the machines take so long to reboot, so on average, the BSD stack is faster". Kirk McKusick tells the story far better...

https://www.youtube.com/@OutofSpecMotoring https://www.youtube.com/@OutofSpecReviews https://www.youtube.com/@OutofSpecPodcast

Re:Rivian Joins Forces with Tesla, Embracing Their Charging ... by recursive on Tuesday June 20, 2023 @08:43PM (#36412846)
I think reliability is a lot more important than speed. I understand the benefits of the SuperChargers. But I was responding to a comment that said this:

> But will the CCS be as fast at charging ?

Of all the problems with CCS, speed isn't really one of them.

Re:Rivian Joins Forces with Tesla, Embracing Their Charging ... by iknowstuff on Tuesday June 20, 2023 @05:23PM (#36410856)
The connector is open. Obviously the producer of the charging station can always determine the charge rate regardless of the connector, which is why most EA stations sit out there in a half broken state limited to 120kW.
Re:Rivian Joins Forces with Tesla, Embracing Their Charging ... by franckl on Tuesday June 20, 2023 @06:14PM (#36411438)
I would be happy to have that. Most of the time it is 50 to 90kW at the 2 EA stations I use in Texas
Re:Rivian Joins Forces with Tesla, Embracing Their Charging ... by MetaWhirledPeas on Tuesday June 20, 2023 @06:21PM (#36411524)
> But will the CCS be as fast at charging ? It seems like Tesla could control a lot with their proprietary connector if it has a faster charge rate.

Tesla is supporting CCS because that's what the bureaucratic funding dictates, not because anyone believes CCS will succeed. They will (and should) do the bare minimum.

Re:Rivian Joins Forces with Tesla, Embracing Their Charging ... by neon_electro on Tuesday June 20, 2023 @07:06PM (#36411994)
The car is ultimately the limiting factor on charge rate, not the connector.
Re:Rivian Joins Forces with Tesla, Embracing Their Charging ... by mkozlows on Tuesday June 20, 2023 @06:10PM (#36411395)
But to be clear, that's not what this news is about. This news is about Tesla's push to get other companies to sign onto their previously-proprietary, still-Tesla-controlled "NACS" standard, en route to pushing the government to change the rules to allow NACS-only chargers and remove the CCS restriction.
Re:Rivian Joins Forces with Tesla, Embracing Their Charging ... by jxf on Tuesday June 20, 2023 @08:35PM (#36412786)
Q: what does "must work 97% of the time" mean? Like, 97% availability?
Re:Rivian Joins Forces with Tesla, Embracing Their Charging ... by hinkley on Wednesday June 21, 2023 @02:04AM (#36414955)
Sounds like “10 million stranded Americans per day” to me. I hope the actual document is more rigorous than the summary, but then we all know how these things tend to play out.
Re:Rivian Joins Forces with Tesla, Embracing Their Charging ... by jxf on Friday June 23, 2023 @06:41AM (#36445076)
Well, for example, many gas pumps aren't 24/7, so I wouldn't be surprised if they were less than 97% availability.