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Re:Rivian Joins Forces with Tesla, Embracing Their Charging ... by megaman821 on Tuesday June 20, 2023 @11:25AM (#36405371)
As a business it seems smarter to grow the pie and increase your revenues even if Tesla's marketshare decreases.

Even through the lens of hating Elon Musk and wanting alternatives, most people have no strong feelings at all. Price and availability largely dictates what Tesla will sell. I have not seen any data Elon's antics change sales volumes.

Re:Rivian Joins Forces with Tesla, Embracing Their Charging ... by Retric on Tuesday June 20, 2023 @11:38AM (#36405619)
Tesla’s gross margins are down quite a bit since the Twitter deal. It’s hard to correlate consumer sentiment with the price drop, but gross margins dropped from 27% to 23% which represent a lot of money.
Re:Rivian Joins Forces with Tesla, Embracing Their Charging ... by erikstarck on Tuesday June 20, 2023 @11:51AM (#36405838)
The margins were inflated during the pandemic, though. Musk even called their prices "embarrassingly expensive".

https://www.carscoops.com/2022/07/teslas-prices-are-embarras...

Re:Rivian Joins Forces with Tesla, Embracing Their Charging ... by Retric on Tuesday June 20, 2023 @12:00PM (#36406026)
Tesla’s gross margins were much higher in 2011 than 2022. But yea, this is why I said it’s hard to separate how much of this was Tesla specific vs industry wide. However, the need to cut prices despite high inflation was unusual in the car industry and suggests this was a Tesla specific issue.
Re:Rivian Joins Forces with Tesla, Embracing Their Charging ... by jsight on Tuesday June 20, 2023 @01:37PM (#36407558)
It is easy to explain when you consider that 2 car models are representing ~1.7M cars this year.

Their strategy is a little nutty and has basically required them to underprice their vehicles.

Any other mfg would cut back production to maintain margins.

Re:Rivian Joins Forces with Tesla, Embracing Their Charging ... by seanmcdirmid on Tuesday June 20, 2023 @01:39PM (#36407598)
Most non-Tesla auto manufacturers are taking a loss on their new EVs ATM as they try to optimize supply and recoup R&D costs.
Re:Rivian Joins Forces with Tesla, Embracing Their Charging ... by jsight on Tuesday June 20, 2023 @01:56PM (#36407888)
Yeah, but I bet that changes once they get to ~400k per year. That isn't much different from Tesla's path.
Re:Rivian Joins Forces with Tesla, Embracing Their Charging ... by megaman821 on Tuesday June 20, 2023 @11:52AM (#36405866)
There is no telling how much money is involved in falling margins if you don't also look at revenues. A quick Google search shows their gross profits look fine.

Also, you would have to compare them to other manufacturers. If profits were down an average of 20% and Tesla's were down 10% then they would be over performing their competitors during a down market.

Re:Rivian Joins Forces with Tesla, Embracing Their Charging ... by Retric on Tuesday June 20, 2023 @05:50PM (#36411178)
Gross profits need to pay back capital expenses for equipment or land, R&D, etc which is why moderate drop in gross profits represents a much larger drop on long term profits.
Re:Rivian Joins Forces with Tesla, Embracing Their Charging ... by bryanlarsen on Tuesday June 20, 2023 @11:34AM (#36405527)
Smart or not, it's definitely Tesla's strategy. They have an explicit goal of 20% of the vehicle market. They don't care what their share of the EV market is, they want 20% of the combined market.