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Re:Titanic tourist sub goes missing sparking search by JumpCrisscross on Monday June 19, 2023 @06:21PM (#36397182)
> Composite properties can be fairly accurately measured and tested, just like any other material including plate steel or aluminium

Metals are uniform and thus predictable. Composites vary cure to cure. We simply don’t have the deep engineering tables that let you know how a material will behave without destructive testing.

Re:Titanic tourist sub goes missing sparking search by californical on Monday June 19, 2023 @06:41PM (#36397348)
Then there’s also the issue of minor failures cascading.

I’m by no means a structural engineer, but with bike parts — in steel or aluminum, if you get a tiny 1mm chip in the material, you can more-or-less just treat it as if the steel is 1mm thinner. With engineering tolerances it is irrelevant.

But in a carbon fiber, that 1mm chip could be totally unnoticed for months, while slowly causing an invisible hairline crack, until the entire component suddenly explodes with no warning.

Maybe someone can verify if that is possible at a larger scale, but I feel like it must be to some extent.. especially if there is an invisible manufacturing imperfection due to the higher precision required in carbon fiber

Re:Titanic tourist sub goes missing sparking search by dredmorbius on Monday June 19, 2023 @08:34PM (#36398240)
NB: Aluminium is rather notorious for its tendency to develop invisible hairline fractures which fail suddenly. Particularly around high-stress regions.

The BOAC Comet failures (cracks propagating from squared-off window corners) is a notorious example, with multiple total hull losses in flight.

I've experienced somewhat less significant failures of bicycle components (though they could easily have proved far worse). It's a good idea to replace components after a wreck or even hard-cornering of a crankset.

Re:Titanic tourist sub goes missing sparking search by pfdietz on Monday June 19, 2023 @11:12PM (#36399291)
The window corner thing is an urban legend.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DjnG74DDno

The cracks actually started on the top of the plane, at cutouts for radio antennas. The windows always had rounded corners (although they made them even rounder later, which may have led to the confusion.)

Re:Titanic tourist sub goes missing sparking search by dredmorbius on Tuesday June 20, 2023 @08:24AM (#36403012)
Interesting, and a good explanation from Mentour Pilot as well.

Thanks!

Re:Titanic tourist sub goes missing sparking search by rkagerer on Tuesday June 20, 2023 @03:55AM (#36400949)
Didn't it take us thousands of years of working with metals (Bronze Age through Modern) to get them to the uniform quality we see today (at least speaking on a commoditized basis)?

I'm sure the story around composites will improve in due time.

Re:Titanic tourist sub goes missing sparking search by midoridensha on Tuesday June 20, 2023 @05:17AM (#36401528)
>Metals are uniform and broadly predictable.

That's not true at all: metals have a grain structure, and how those grains are oriented can change the metal's properties in different directions.

>Composites vary cure to cure.

Metal castings can vary from cast to cast.

Re:Titanic tourist sub goes missing sparking search by omniglottal on Tuesday June 20, 2023 @01:48PM (#36407751)
Forging and heat treatment are processes to introduce uniformity of metallic grain structures. These have been perfected over hundreds of years. I challenge you to find a single structural component in a safety-critical context which is made of cast metal.
Re:Titanic tourist sub goes missing sparking search by durundal on Tuesday June 20, 2023 @03:51PM (#36409547)
https://www.investacast.com/industries/safety-critical/

These folks, among others, make a lot of them. You are also incorrect about forging being used to introduce uniformity into the grain, it is typically (though not always, as some forging operations may just be for establishing shape) to stretch the grains such that they are oriented along the load path, resulting in higher allowable stresses. Look up highly loaded aircraft parts like landing gear, they are typically forged to establish the grain direction and then machined to final dimension. Nothing stops you from heat treating metal after it has been cast, either. Some heat treatments are also expressly to produce nonuniform conditions in the metal, case hardening for example.

Re:Titanic tourist sub goes missing sparking search by jacquesm on Tuesday June 20, 2023 @05:47PM (#36411139)
As well as chemical treatments.