How the brain processes German and Arabic

Re:How the brain processes German and Arabic by aleph_minus_one on Friday June 16, 2023 @04:33AM (#36353312)

> A "mær" (as Maer - imagine an a umlaut) does exist still but the word is so antiquated that I don't expect kids these days to know it.

The word [die] Mär/die Märe [the lore, myth] (in modern German one would rather use "die Kunde" (not to be confused with "der Kunde" [the customer])) is used regularly in modern German in the diminutive form: "das Märchen" (the fairly tale). So, a Märchen [fairy tale] is a small lore.

> "wunders"

die Wunder [the wonders].

> "geseit"

In modern German, you would say "gesagt", which is actually rather similar, but it might cause trouble to find this relationship on your own.

> lobebæren

You can immediately see the relationship to the noun "[das] Lob". So you can guess that in modern German you would use "gelobt" (I agree that using "gelobt" sounds a little bit stilted in modern German, but this shall not matter here).

> sure that's "grosser Arbeit" but when I look at the "translation to German" (from the middle high German the original apparently is written in) it says it's "groesse Muehsahl".

Your guess is perfectly correct: the meaning of "Arbeit" has shifted over time, so in modern German, you would rather use the word "Mühsal".

> "hôchgezîten": Hochzeiten? Like weddings?

A wedding is actually a "high time" (Hoch-Zeit). This relationship is slightly obscured in modern German in that if you mean "wedding" the initial "o" in Hochzeit is pronounced differently when meaning "wedding". If you pronounce "Hochzeit" as "Hoch-Zeit", the meaning becomes very clear ("Hochzeit" as in "Hochphase" ["high phase" -> heyday]).

> "recken" very old word.

The word "der Recke" [valiant] is a (slightly old-fashioned) word that does exist in modern German.

> "strîten" means streiten

Exactly; "streiten" in the today less commonly used (but perfectly understandable) meaning "kämpfen" [to combat]. If you are used to the lyrics of the Lohengrin opera

> http://www.wagneroperas.com/indexlohengrinlibretto.html

"streiten"/[der] Streiter is permanently used in this older meaning, for example:

Friedrich: [...] Hier steh' ich, hier mein Schwert! Wer wagt von euch, zu streiten wider meiner Ehre Preis!

Die Brabanter: Keiner von uns! Wir streiten nur für dich!

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Re:How the brain processes German and Arabic by tharkun__ on Friday June 16, 2023 @08:19PM (#36365749)

    used regularly in modern German in the diminutive form: "das Märchen"

Agreed. That word is used and everyone knows it. "Maer" as an actual word. Very much not so. I did not make the connection actually although your explanation makes perfect sense for the origin of Maerchen.

    lobebæren

    You can immediately see the relationship to the noun "[das] Lob"

I did not see that at all and I do not think I'm the only one. Now, once you've told me, I can totally see it. This is exactly my point about not being able to just listen to this or read it and understand right away. I have to stop and think and look stuff up.

    The word "der Recke" [valiant] is a (slightly old-fashioned) word that does exist in modern German.

I never said the word does not exist. Just that, like you also mention, it's old (fashioned) and not in very active use and I do not expect many kids these days to recognize the word. If you read slightly older books about knights and such for boys with a bunch of "kuehne Recken", sure. Otherwise: doubtful in my opinion.

    If you are used to the lyrics of the Lohengrin opera

That's also part of my point. If you're into poems, especially old ones, you'll have a better time. If you're "poem blind" like me, there's no way I can just have someone read the Niebelungenlied in the original to me and understand what's going on. No I am not used to Lohengrin type lyrics.

As for using Streit as a noun, yes, no problem there, though the fact that there's no proper capitalization in the Niebelungenlied text does not help to figure that out. I immediately read it as "streiten" the verb only.

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