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Re:Travel across Germany with the 49 Euro ticket by ttymck on Thursday June 08, 2023 @12:40PM (#36244738)
One comment says "it's shipped to you", another says "it's digital only".

This post doesn't seem to be an official press release, but this confusion seems notable.

Re:Travel across Germany with the 49 Euro ticket by RjQoLCOSwiIKfpm on Thursday June 08, 2023 @12:42PM (#36244780)
"Digital-only" = By smartphone app OR by smartcard, i.e. a card like a credit card with a chip and your personal unique ID stored on that.

In other words: You cannot get a plain old paper ticket without personal information, the ticket is like a cookie which identifies you as a user and thus allows you to be tracked.

Disclaimer: Not a resident of Germany.

Re:Travel across Germany with the 49 Euro ticket by schroeding on Thursday June 08, 2023 @12:56PM (#36245035)
> and thus allows you to be tracked

While true, something to note is that german train and metro stations, in general, have no ticket barriers. Tickets are only checked by staff on trains, on a (very) random basis for local / metro trains.

I've had months in which my ticket wasn't checked at all while using it every single day.

Re:Travel across Germany with the 49 Euro ticket by aleph_minus_one on Thursday June 08, 2023 @01:02PM (#36245134)
More tracking will come as soon as the 49 euro ticket becomes more widely spread ... :-(
Re:Travel across Germany with the 49 Euro ticket by dathinab on Thursday June 08, 2023 @01:14PM (#36245313)
no less, because there is now less profit to make from it because now most people have a ticket

I don't think I have been checked a single time in the last 2 years.

Re:Travel across Germany with the 49 Euro ticket by aleph_minus_one on Thursday June 08, 2023 @01:19PM (#36245389)
> I don't think I have been checked a single time in the last 2 years.

My experience differs a lot: I go by train (in Germany) rather often and would say that it was more common to be checked than not (i.e. for me the probability of being checked was more than 1/2).

Re:Travel across Germany with the 49 Euro ticket by dathinab on Thursday June 08, 2023 @02:18PM (#36246288)
like public "city" transportation or regional trains?

in regional trains you get checked more often (longer distances, less passenger exchange and per-train personal have this as a side effect), but already it's somewhat tricky to have a regional train ticket which is not linked to your name

in public "city" transportation it's semi-random but also there are times & stations where statistically it's most likely to find someone without an ticket and in turn this places/times get checked very frequent and if you are there every day at the specific time-frames you are unlucky and also get checked very frequent. But most times and place combinations do not have this issue and some are close to guaranteed that you don't get checked.

Re:Travel across Germany with the 49 Euro ticket by morelisp on Thursday June 08, 2023 @01:45PM (#36245765)
Ticket control in Berlin seems to have gotten extremely centralized. 5y ago it was pretty random where they might walk a few people through scanning on the train, today it's almost always checks on the platform at major hubs / tourist centers. I don't know if this a real change of policy or a side result of the BVG changing their contractors.
Re:Travel across Germany with the 49 Euro ticket by dathinab on Thursday June 08, 2023 @02:19PM (#36246302)
it's about money

they check the place/time combo they are most likely to find a person without ticket most often

Re:Travel across Germany with the 49 Euro ticket by morelisp on Thursday June 08, 2023 @03:47PM (#36247711)
Even if this is true it's a change.
Re:Travel across Germany with the 49 Euro ticket by lispm on Thursday June 08, 2023 @01:00PM (#36245108)
> ticket is like a cookie which identifies you as a user and thus allows you to be tracked

local trains, underground trains, busses and ferries here in Hamburg has no regular ticket checks whatsoever. No checks -> they can't track people via the ticket.

Re:Travel across Germany with the 49 Euro ticket by dathinab on Thursday June 08, 2023 @01:16PM (#36245342)
same for most of Germany
Re:Travel across Germany with the 49 Euro ticket by jonp888 on Thursday June 08, 2023 @01:03PM (#36245148)
As far as I know no such tracking occurs and to do so would be illegal under German law.

In London meanwhile, you can a weekly PDF statement showing exactly where you were and when! :)

Re:Travel across Germany with the 49 Euro ticket by kanbara on Thursday June 08, 2023 @01:18PM (#36245375)
this sort of tracking is illegal and not done. berlin had to cancel its rollout of smart cards and tapping some years ago due to leaking of personal information. you just wave the card when you get on the bus, or just not at all
Re:Travel across Germany with the 49 Euro ticket by asmor on Thursday June 08, 2023 @03:21PM (#36247245)
The neoliberals insisted on that so that the very poor or those without a bank account would not be able to get it, not because of any kind of tracking. No system in Germany has gates and ticket checks are so rare, it's not really viable for tracking.
Re:Travel across Germany with the 49 Euro ticket by vstollen on Thursday June 08, 2023 @12:47PM (#36244879)
I think the confusion comes from there being lots of transportation providers where you can buy the ticket.

The different providers can differ in what payments they accept and how they send you the ticket. Some also include extra benefits.

According to their website, Mainz, for example seems to sell them in their app and accepts credit card, as well as PayPal payments.

Re:Travel across Germany with the 49 Euro ticket by usr1106 on Thursday June 08, 2023 @01:01PM (#36245117)
It has been discussed a lot in railway forums, it seems to be a fact that it's rather hard to buy the ticket if you do not live in Germany.

* the default payment method used by 99% of the sellers requires a German bank account

* most sellers request a German credit score (Schufa)

* many apps are not available in the app stores outside of Germany and of course none is available in a FOSS store

Haven't followed it recently, but I have still to see a success story that someone not residing in Germany has actually bought it successfully.

Re:Travel across Germany with the 49 Euro ticket by lispm on Thursday June 08, 2023 @01:05PM (#36245176)
I bought mine via the HVV (Hamburg Transport Association) Switch app on an iPhone. I pay using Paypal.
Re:Travel across Germany with the 49 Euro ticket by usr1106 on Thursday June 08, 2023 @01:30PM (#36245547)
Not familiar with Apple, but I guess they have country limits like Google. In what country is your phone registered?
Re:Travel across Germany with the 49 Euro ticket by takluyver on Thursday June 08, 2023 @01:41PM (#36245717)
I'm on Android rather than Apple, but I could install the HVV app on my UK phone and buy tickets using my UK card with no particular difficulty. Maybe other transport associations are more difficult, but I'm not sure why they'd want to make it hard for me to give them money.
Re:Travel across Germany with the 49 Euro ticket by usr1106 on Thursday June 08, 2023 @01:55PM (#36245918)
Yes, that's a good question why they don't want our (not living in Germany) money.

I think the background is:

* Paypal is not very common/popular in Germany so most local transport agencies don't bother

* with SEPA direct debit which is the common payment in Germany you can easily initiate a chargeback after you have already used the ticket. Of course that's fraud, but if you live abroad, the effort to sue you would be tremendous

Re:Travel across Germany with the 49 Euro ticket by germanier on Thursday June 08, 2023 @03:55PM (#36247849)
According to the Bundesbank, Paypal is the most used online payment type in Germany with almost every second transaction using it.
Re:Travel across Germany with the 49 Euro ticket by usr1106 on Thursday June 08, 2023 @06:01PM (#36249827)
But the same publication says that only a bit over 50% of the population even own a credit card. And debit cards usable online are still a niche product.

So in Germany, can you pay your Paypal bills any other way than by credit card? Honest question, when I lived in Germany the last time, Paypal did not exist yet.

I assume you are talking about https://www.bundesbank.de/de/publikationen/berichte/studien/...

Re:Travel across Germany with the 49 Euro ticket by germanier on Thursday June 08, 2023 @06:22PM (#36250049)
The usual method is by SEPA direct debit (initiated by Paypal) but you can use a SEPA transfer as well to top up your Paypal balance and pay with that.
Re:Travel across Germany with the 49 Euro ticket by usr1106 on Friday June 09, 2023 @02:21PM (#36261881)
Ah, I had no idea that Paypal would do SEPA direct debit . They don't offer it to me. (I don't have a German address, although I would have a German account.)
Re:Travel across Germany with the 49 Euro ticket by lispm on Friday June 09, 2023 @02:49AM (#36254226)
Many people use Paypal in Germany and one uses it with the typical bank account.

> But the same publication says that only a bit over 50% of the population even own a credit card

Because many cashless transactions are done with girocards. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girocard

Germans are usually very aware of hidden costs and credit cards are usually more expensive per transaction.

Germans also usually are much less in debt than for example many US citizens - for example the University education costs much much less. Young adults have 1400 Euros (plus!) on their giro account and it is typical to pay from that account.

Re:Travel across Germany with the 49 Euro ticket by dathinab on Thursday June 08, 2023 @01:13PM (#36245295)
> the default payment method used by 99% of the sellers requires a German bank account

no SEPA compatible bank account AFIK, that means most EU bank accounts would work

Re:Travel across Germany with the 49 Euro ticket by usr1106 on Thursday June 08, 2023 @01:24PM (#36245475)
SEPA discrimination is illegal but a fact. Many sellers don't even let you enter an account number that doesn't start with DE. At the latest the Schufa check will fail.
Re:Travel across Germany with the 49 Euro ticket by dathinab on Thursday June 08, 2023 @02:25PM (#36246391)
then just buy with one of the providers which don't have the issue... not all need schufa checks
Re:Travel across Germany with the 49 Euro ticket by usr1106 on Thursday June 08, 2023 @03:20PM (#36247219)
Easier for those who sell themselves to Google or pay the Apple premium. For people who believe in freedom it means a chipcard. Which can be a real challenge because then the number of sellers gets very small and they might be very far from where you'd like to buy it.
Re:Travel across Germany with the 49 Euro ticket by dheera on Thursday June 08, 2023 @01:09PM (#36245232)
A long time ago there used to be a "Schones-Wochenende" ("have a good weekend") ticket that you could just buy from the machines, and would allow you unlimited use of regional and interregional (no intercity high speed) trains throughout Germany for one weekend, and upto 5 people on one ticket, for a stupidly low price of something like 30 euros, and you could also sell it to someone else for the remainder of the weekend.

I don't know if they do that anymore?

Re:Travel across Germany with the 49 Euro ticket by detaro on Thursday June 08, 2023 @01:15PM (#36245325)
No, that doesn't exist anymore. (it also had gotten more expensive over the years, and only was for the full weekend until 2000 or so, only one day after that)

The closest is now the "Quer-durchs-Land" (~"across the country") ticket which is available for any day of the week and currently costs 44€ for the first person and 7€ each for up to 4 more people travelling on it.

Re:Travel across Germany with the 49 Euro ticket by usr1106 on Thursday June 08, 2023 @01:27PM (#36245504)
That's 44€ per day railway only, whereas the discussed ticket is 49€ per month including all local buses, trams, subways.
Re:Travel across Germany with the 49 Euro ticket by detaro on Thursday June 08, 2023 @01:28PM (#36245516)
... yes. why do you think you have to point this obvious fact out?
Re:Travel across Germany with the 49 Euro ticket by usr1106 on Thursday June 08, 2023 @01:39PM (#36245664)
Just to inform random tourists that cheap travelling is not for them. You don't just go to the vending machine and pay a cheap price.
Re:Travel across Germany with the 49 Euro ticket by constantcrying on Thursday June 08, 2023 @12:57PM (#36245053)
I literally do not know whether I have one. I switched my plan for my local provider some time ago, but I still have no indication, digital or physical, whether I actually have such a ticket...

As usual a complete technical disaster.

Re:Travel across Germany with the 49 Euro ticket by dathinab on Thursday June 08, 2023 @01:10PM (#36245246)
Depends where you buy it.

The 49€ ticket is to be precise not a ticket.

But a regulations stating that transport providers have to provide tickets for the cost of 49€ valid all across Germany (very strongly oversimplified).

This means there are many places selling this ticket which only are the same in where it's valid, how much it costs, and how it can be validate by any arbitrary public train service.

So some providers sell chip plastic cards with a NFC chip in them and some ID+Name+Date printed on it which get shipped to you.

Other provider only sell it through the App using your phones NFC chip or (I think, not sure) QR as fallback.

Similar some might only accept SEPA payment mandates (i.e. implicitly require and EU bank account) and require you to have an German address to ship the card to. Other require SEPA and hand it to you personally not caring about an address in Germany and others might accept Google Pay, Apple Pay or Paypal and are online only.

While this sounds bad, for most German people this is a complete non issue as they just buy it form the same transportation provider they used before using the same payment method they where using before. (The reason this works technically is because there already was a system for validating tickets valid in the transport net of one provider issued by another, most commonly DB long distance tickets also covering public transportation around the time of arrival/departure).