10 years after Snowden's first leak, what have we learned?

Re:10 years after Snowden's first leak, what have we learned? by cmrdporcupine on Wednesday June 07, 2023 @04:58PM (#36233467)

My observation as a non-American (Canadian) -- is that Americans are very much freedom and liberty loving... until it comes to anything about their military, their foreign policy, and their associated intelligence agencies. It's a state whose first president was a general, where the military is treated with a reverence I've seen in no other country, and where I suspect the population is deeply aware that its own economic advantage is tied directly to its military advantage.

Snowden, despite the injustices he revealed, fell on the wrong side of American opinion in relation to the military, foreign policy, and associated intelligence agencies.

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Re:10 years after Snowden's first leak, what have we learned? by juunpp on Thursday June 08, 2023 @12:53AM (#36237372)

> where I suspect the population is deeply aware that its own economic advantage is tied directly to its military advantage.

I wouldn't be so fast to use the word "deeply" there.

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Re:10 years after Snowden's first leak, what have we learned? by dontlaugh on Thursday June 08, 2023 @03:52AM (#36238587)

Maybe deeply as in subconsciously.

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Re:10 years after Snowden's first leak, what have we learned? by cmrdporcupine on Thursday June 08, 2023 @10:44AM (#36242694)

That is what I meant, roughly.

Though clearly I think most Republican voters are pretty explicit about it. At least the ones I have met. This is kind of the undertone to "America First" really.

EDIT: And I'd add that many often seem to have the attitude that this extends to other countries in the American sphere of influence; even self-style liberals will make comments ot the effect that Canada or France or Germany etc are all benefiting from the US's world dominance and that we basically "owe them one"; as if this isn't in reality a two-sided coin where the US gets ... plenty... in return

Still I'd rather have US dominance than Russian.

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Re:10 years after Snowden's first leak, what have we learned? by simonh on Thursday June 08, 2023 @10:06AM (#36242098)

There's a great scene in Casablanca when Claude Raines' police chief character shuts down the gambling den he gambles at, saying that he is "Shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in this establishment" before collecting his winnings on the way out. The US thinks it needs to be in the game, wants to win at it and is willing to turn a blind eye to the implications of that.

Americans know they have spies, they know the CIA and the NSA exist and have a vague idea what they do. They know it's unpleasant and may be technically illegal and they're fine with delegating their elected leaders to deal with that for them.

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Re:10 years after Snowden's first leak, what have we learned? by jrussino on Tuesday June 13, 2023 @03:39PM (#36315789)

> They know it's unpleasant and may be technically illegal and they're fine with delegating their elected leaders to deal with that for them.

I don't know; maybe there are plenty of people like this. But I think there are many (more?) of us who are not OK with these things but feel powerless to do anything about them.

And that includes those of us who do appreciate America's hegemony and the relative safety and prosperity that it affords us, but who think that doing things like spying on citizens, bombing weddings, supporting coups, assassinating dissidents, invading and occupying countries for no good reason, torturing (e.g. waterboarding) prisoners, detaining people indefinitely, etc. are both morally wrong and counter-productive toward maintaining our position of power and prosperity and esteem in the world.

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