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Re:SEC Accuses Binance of Mishandling Funds and Lying to Reg... by perardi on Monday June 05, 2023 @11:49AM (#36198068)
“Cryptocurrencies can work, we’ve just never had a properly decentralized system yet” is becoming the “Communism can work, we just haven’t really tried it yet”.

This is yet another example of the crypto boom going bust, which has been a series of unregulated and utterly opaque exchanges collapsing. Over and over again, the entire ecosystem has been snake oil salesmen, who are selling snake oil to other snake oil salesmen.

And the crypto purists will cry “oh, but Bitcoin, it would work if we all held dear to the purity of the concept and kept our relevant info in lockboxes in our panic rooms!” And the cynical, but also correct, among us will mutter “well that’s cool, but no normal human is going to do that, and the valuation of whole thing is based on mass uptake, and that’s contingent on having middlemen do a lot of the ugly gruntwork, because otherwise it’s far too difficult for normal users to ever bother with.” And those middlemen are, again, invariably, snake oil salemen who will cut and run.

Re:SEC Accuses Binance of Mishandling Funds and Lying to Reg... by mhluongo on Monday June 05, 2023 @12:18PM (#36198561)
Bitcoin is working. Ethereum is working.

In what world do you think that "Bitcoin working" implies all centralized bad actors are washed out? All middleman are toast? This stuff takes time, and the existence of middlemen doesn't negate the premise that blocks keep being mined without censorship.

Re:SEC Accuses Binance of Mishandling Funds and Lying to Reg... by methodical on Monday June 05, 2023 @12:24PM (#36198675)
Yes, except of course the fact that Bitcoin/Eth without the ability to convert it to fiat is functionally worthless, except for the people with their heads in the clouds who think that at some point the entire global economy will move to Bitcoin (which can't even handle a fraction of the transactional throughput of MC or Visa). Crypto, while nice in theory, has proven to not work in reality, time and time again. Centralization is necessary for a lot of niceties in order to make crypto a functional currency, and yet centralization is also counter to all of the values of crypto. Anybody still hanging onto crypto is probably latching onto greater-fool theory and hoping they aren't the greatest fool, although at this point, they likely are the end of the line.
Re:SEC Accuses Binance of Mishandling Funds and Lying to Reg... by Karunamon on Monday June 05, 2023 @12:57PM (#36199259)
Your first statement is strictly false, it is not difficult to find places to spend either of those currencies. (Thereby disproving your third statement)

Your second is a strawman, the "entire global economy" need not moved to crypto for it to be useful.

The entire rest of your post is a stack of shallow, dismissive tropes that contribute nothing to the discussion.

Re:SEC Accuses Binance of Mishandling Funds and Lying to Reg... by kkielhofner on Monday June 05, 2023 @01:29PM (#36199760)
> it is not difficult to find places to spend either of those currencies

I beg to differ. There's a reason actually paying with Bitcoin/ETH/crypto somewhere (anywhere) is celebrated on crypto twitter, /r/bitcoin, etc.

After 14 years it's still a novel and rare enough experience people feel the need to record videos of it and post them online to celebrate "adoption".

Imagine sending a tweet in 2020 (14 years after founding of Twitter) being noteworthy. Ridiculous, right? That's what crypto looks like to those of us not trapped in the bubble/echo chamber.

Re:SEC Accuses Binance of Mishandling Funds and Lying to Reg... by smithcoin on Monday June 05, 2023 @01:49PM (#36200131)
Then why do “we” celebrate every little thing happening on Mastodon? Ridiculous right?
Re:SEC Accuses Binance of Mishandling Funds and Lying to Reg... by kkielhofner on Monday June 05, 2023 @02:06PM (#36200407)
Mastodon is at best seven years old. We're talking about 14 when it comes to crypto. Mastodon also doesn't have the "get rich quick" user adoption lure that has driven the majority of crypto "adoption".

On that note, I once again point to crypto twitter, /r/bitcoin, etc where you see "what's your retirement plan with crypto?" posts constantly.

Re:SEC Accuses Binance of Mishandling Funds and Lying to Reg... by Karunamon on Tuesday June 06, 2023 @07:23PM (#36220495)
> the "get rich quick" user adoption lure that has driven the majority of crypto "adoption".

Source?

Re:SEC Accuses Binance of Mishandling Funds and Lying to Reg... by kkielhofner on Wednesday June 07, 2023 @01:10PM (#36229794)
The frontpage, every single day:

https://old.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/

Re:SEC Accuses Binance of Mishandling Funds and Lying to Reg... by Karunamon on Friday June 09, 2023 @01:59PM (#36261542)
I look at the past month top posts and see a grand total of three posts that even mention the price history, and precisely 0 that say anything about future performance or "getting rich".

This is exceedingly poor-quality evidence for your claim.

Re:SEC Accuses Binance of Mishandling Funds and Lying to Reg... by methodical on Monday June 05, 2023 @01:20PM (#36199613)
And yet you don't directly provide any evidence to the contrary, highlighting that the person who is providing nothing is actually you and your comment of unsupported contradictions.

Does your utility company take crypto? Mine certainly doesn't. Therefore, in order for me to use crypto as a currency, I need to be able to convert it to fiat. Point out where exactly this is incorrect, or in what way crypto can address it without making some dreamy assumption that the world shifts to using crypto as the global currency (which will simply never happen). Did I say nobody accepted crypto? Nope, never said that.

Re:SEC Accuses Binance of Mishandling Funds and Lying to Reg... by ineedasername on Monday June 05, 2023 @05:55PM (#36204454)
>it is not difficult to find places to spend either of those currencies

There are literally no services I use or products I buy that take bitcoin.

From weekly groceries to my car insurance or, well, anything... none take bitcoin. The overlap between businesses that accept bitcoin and the things 99.9999% of people need to live their lives on a daily basis would not be distinguishable to the human eye on a venn diagram.

Re:SEC Accuses Binance of Mishandling Funds and Lying to Reg... by Karunamon on Tuesday June 06, 2023 @07:18PM (#36220455)
You appear to be arguing that a payment method is completely devoid of utility of any kind unless it works on absolute necessities for you and/or the lowest common denominator?

I don't think that is a useful definition of utility.

Re:SEC Accuses Binance of Mishandling Funds and Lying to Reg... by crote on Monday June 05, 2023 @12:27PM (#36198724)
I wouldn't exactly call it "working" when the largest trading platforms turn out to be fraudulent, the value is highly volatile, the whole "immutability" thing is thrown out as soon as people are inconvenienced by it, and transaction volume always remains negligible. The only people for who Bitcoin is working is those using it for ransomware extortion.
Re:SEC Accuses Binance of Mishandling Funds and Lying to Reg... by super256 on Monday June 05, 2023 @01:00PM (#36199315)
I wonder if Coinbase could steal all the volume from Binance if they would offer 0% fees on spot. I bet most other markets would implode.
Re:SEC Accuses Binance of Mishandling Funds and Lying to Reg... by mhluongo on Monday June 05, 2023 @01:45PM (#36200058)
Is a public company not working of the exchange it's traded on is fraudulent? No — it can still offer governance rights and potentially dividends.

Does gold not work if the exchange it's traded on is fraudulent? No, it can still be held and traded peer to peer, and it can still be used in manufacturing.

You're conflating the market with the actual network. The Bitcoin network works just fine.

Re:SEC Accuses Binance of Mishandling Funds and Lying to Reg... by mt360 on Monday June 05, 2023 @07:06PM (#36205522)
People looking to buy Bitcoin unfortunately often end up at Binance.

They have long offered low trading fees, while heavily inflating on-chain withdrawal fees and duping users into accepting "wrapped bitcoin" instead (that is, a layer of misdirection and nonetheless custodial bitcoin, held by Binance or some other third party).

If what the SEC allege is proven, that they moved customer coins to a separate legal entity, I don't think it's a leap to assume the coins users think they're buying perhaps don't even exist - that the exchange have been selling paper coins banking on that users won't withdraw en masse.

This is what FTX were doing too - selling paper bitcoin; bitcoin that was not backed 1-to-1 (or anywhere close, they actually held a relatively small number), instead funneling customer money into the hundreds of other coins FTX had invested in.

This could reveal the apparent mass susceptibility for VC backed "cryptos" - that the masses are not so dumb after all, or at least not in the way you thought, that instead they've been fleeced.

Bitcoin may still suffer reputational damage in the short term, but surely the elimination of such schemes is, to use an overused phrase that seems very apt now, good for bitcoin?

Re:SEC Accuses Binance of Mishandling Funds and Lying to Reg... by hiatus on Monday June 05, 2023 @11:52AM (#36198128)
> which has been a series of unregulated and utterly opaque exchanges collapsing

It seems the issue with Binance was that it was running afoul of regulations. In what way is that "unregulated"?

Re:SEC Accuses Binance of Mishandling Funds and Lying to Reg... by JumpCrisscross on Monday June 05, 2023 @11:56AM (#36198198)
> the issue with Binance was that it was running afoul of regulations. In what way is that "unregulated"?

“Blatant disregard of the federal securities laws and the investor and market protections these laws provide” means acting unregulated, even if one is properly subject to regulation [1].

[1] https://www.sec.gov/files/litigation/complaints/2023/comp-pr...

Re:SEC Accuses Binance of Mishandling Funds and Lying to Reg... by lesuorac on Monday June 05, 2023 @12:25PM (#36198687)
How many recessions / depressions need to happen before you claim that fiat money doesn't work?

If you can exchange crypto for goods and services then works. period; no need to move any goal posts.

Re:SEC Accuses Binance of Mishandling Funds and Lying to Reg... by Karunamon on Monday June 05, 2023 @01:00PM (#36199327)
It really is that simple. For all its problems, the fact that I can move my money anywhere, without middle men, is the main promise of crypto fulfilled, everything else on top of that is gravy.
Re:SEC Accuses Binance of Mishandling Funds and Lying to Reg... by majormajor on Monday June 05, 2023 @02:34PM (#36200903)
Recessions/depressions seem like more of a potential indictment of capitalism than currency. Crypto would certainly not eliminate those in any scenario.

Many fiat currencies pass the "exchange for goods and services" test you propose. Many crypto coins would fail them, depending on how broadly we want acceptance to be.

Re:SEC Accuses Binance of Mishandling Funds and Lying to Reg... by JumpCrisscross on Monday June 05, 2023 @07:23PM (#36205756)
> How many recessions / depressions need to happen before you claim that fiat money doesn't work?

This category of claim baffles me. Is the hypothesis there weren't wars or recessions when the world was on the gold standard?

Re:SEC Accuses Binance of Mishandling Funds and Lying to Reg... by jcq3 on Monday June 05, 2023 @12:25PM (#36198691)
Cryptos aren't dependent on CEX to work, your analogy is wrong.
Re:SEC Accuses Binance of Mishandling Funds and Lying to Reg... by anigbrowl on Monday June 05, 2023 @05:21PM (#36203829)
Then why did crypto exchanges come into existence, if they don't address any need?