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Re:Parachute use to prevent death and major trauma when jump... by londons_explore on Friday June 02, 2023 @05:00AM (#36162852)
The fact that mice don't appear to deliberately jump off high things as a way to get down tells me that they probably do get hurt...

Just because they don't fall super fast doesn't mean they don't get injured because they don't have as much distance to "drop and roll" like a human does.

Re:Parachute use to prevent death and major trauma when jump... by meindnoch on Friday June 02, 2023 @06:32AM (#36163405)
>The fact that mice don't appear to deliberately jump off high things as a way to get down tells me that they probably do get hurt...

Isn't this how bats have evolved though?

Re:Parachute use to prevent death and major trauma when jump... by mannykannot on Friday June 02, 2023 @07:02AM (#36163577)
Not directly. There was one or more intermediary stage, probably jumping between trees. Outside my window, the squirrels are busy doing just that.

I have a vague recollection of reading that most squirrels have evidence of trauma from falling, such as healed bone fractures.

Re:Parachute use to prevent death and major trauma when jump... by pfdietz on Friday June 02, 2023 @08:49AM (#36164389)
Flying squirrels show an intermediate stage of such an evolution process. Evolution always involves intermediate stages. Even if a large discrete change could occur, fine tuning it is an extended incremental process.

If you go to the Cornell Ornithology Lab feeder cam and scan through the feed at night, you will find flying squirrels at the feeder. They show signs of nocturnal adaptation, another connection to bats.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N609loYkFJo

Re:Parachute use to prevent death and major trauma when jump... by KineticLensman on Friday June 02, 2023 @09:17AM (#36164652)
The grey squirrels in my UK garden routinely make what we call the 'leap of death' between two trees whose upper branches are a few feet apart, at different heights. I've seen two falls - one because the target branch snapped when the squirrel landed, the other during a high-speed chase where one of the squirrels apparently mis-jumped. In both cases the squirrels fell into lower level bushes and disappeared (no subsequent bodies). It's not unusual to see a squirrel with one one useless leg but still managing to feed and get around, so I can quite believe that they can recover from a broken limb given sufficient time.

* * *

We also had a pheasant who routinely visited the garden and one day showed up with a broken leg, that survived for ages before eventually disappearing. Initially he sat quietly in the undergrowth but started hopping around and doing short flights (with clumsy landings). I put out bird seed for him and he incredibly quickly learned to hoot and flap outside my back door when he was hungry. He once followed me into my shed when he was expecting feeding and had to be shoo'd out.

Re:Parachute use to prevent death and major trauma when jump... by 411111111111111 on Friday June 02, 2023 @06:33AM (#36163409)
> The fact that mice don't appear to deliberately jump off high things as a way to get down tells me that they probably do get hurt...

They explicitly added the caveat about the soft ground. There'd be very little opportunity for mouses to become comfortable with jumping from high areas as there'd be very few occasions that satisfy the requirement. If the mouse jumped into a cave and can't get out, it'd starve to death. If it jumped off a cliff and fell into water, it would drown. If it fell off a skyscraper, there'd be Asphalt at the ground etc. Off the top of my head, there are no natural places in which mouses could safely get comfortable with jumping. Thus, they'd only do so if they're in mortal danger. And they absolutely do jump off high places if they're terrified

Re:Parachute use to prevent death and major trauma when jump... by loloquwowndueo on Friday June 02, 2023 @06:49AM (#36163501)
*mice
Re:Parachute use to prevent death and major trauma when jump... by londons_explore on Friday June 02, 2023 @07:01AM (#36163571)
Mice around me fairly frequently climb trees. They know whats at the bottom of the tree (hard soil). Yet I never see them jumping off - they always climb back down the way they came up.

It could be to avoid getting disorientated though, or to be able to see a predator and reverse course...

Re:Parachute use to prevent death and major trauma when jump... by jonashus on Friday June 02, 2023 @07:27AM (#36163731)
Where I live in northern Europe almost all ground in the forests are soft. There is moss, small plants, grass or leaves everywhere.

I can't imagine why the mice would climb trees, but if they did and fall down, they probably gonna be fine most of the time.

In many forests there is lots of large rocks and steep slope/cliffs/precipice in the range 0-5 m where mice possibly could shorten their path by jumping. But I'd suppose they rather use a path they can go in both directions.

Re:Parachute use to prevent death and major trauma when jump... by galaxyLogic on Friday June 02, 2023 @07:27AM (#36163730)
> mice don't appear to deliberately jump off high things

It could also be because they don't like to change their location too fast. You never know where you could end up. When you fall you might fall next to a cat for instance.

Re:Parachute use to prevent death and major trauma when jump... by littlestymaar on Friday June 02, 2023 @07:28AM (#36163739)
> The fact that mice don't appear to deliberately jump off high things as a way to get down tells me that they probably do get hurt...

It's not how this works, cats are decent swimmers yet they generally refuse to get anywhere close to water…

Re:Parachute use to prevent death and major trauma when jump... by wholinator2 on Friday June 02, 2023 @08:22AM (#36164136)
Well me too but if i could just jump off of stuff if be skipping the stairs a lot more often. I agree with the other person, seems logical to me that for a prey animal they'd be careful about changing their threat landscape too fast. Once you let gravity take over there's no telling where you'll land. You could roll right into a ditch or a cats paws. And maybe they actually do jump sometimes, but only when there's certainly no threat nearby, which would involve no human observers, or maybe seeing other mice where they plan to land.

And then there's the actual vision. Are mice known for being able to see long distance? One could posit, if not then most jumps would be leaps of faith into vague amorphous blobs, full of potential danger and impossible to triangulate or assess.

Re:Parachute use to prevent death and major trauma when jump... by thanatropism on Friday June 02, 2023 @08:50AM (#36164391)
I tend to wear jeans with skinny legs that don't seem conducive to taking across-the-stairs (I'm thinking 3 to 5 meters in the horizontal direction) jumps.

Why do I wear impractical clothing? I never even thought of it as impractical.

Re:Parachute use to prevent death and major trauma when jump... by LorenPechtel on Friday June 02, 2023 @12:51PM (#36167587)
Cats live warm--what is a perfect thermal balance for them (where their body needs not expend any effort for heating or cooling) is unpleasantly warm for a human (who will be sweating.) Typical water will be chilling for a cat. Going swimming in most environments will pose a hypothermia risk at times and thus fearing it is a logical evolutionary result.
Re:Parachute use to prevent death and major trauma when jump... by Aardwolf on Friday June 02, 2023 @10:11AM (#36165332)
They at least don't seem afraid to take the risk to walk up high vertical walls towards roofs and attics
Re:Parachute use to prevent death and major trauma when jump... by LorenPechtel on Friday June 02, 2023 @12:44PM (#36167485)
Note that mouse survival depends on the landing. It's quite reasonable for a mouse to fear heights even if in the *typical* situation it won't be hurt. If a mouse freely jumped down and was impaled 1 time in 1,000 that would be a very bad choice for the mouse. Also, a mouse who jumps down might find itself in a situation where it can't get home.