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Re:DNSSEC failures are how you get people to disable DNSSEC by tptacek on Thursday June 01, 2023 @04:27PM (#36156895)
There's some irony here: short expiry has some clear practical benefits for at least some of the goals of the WebPKI, and that works because the WebPKI has stakeholders that will push things like "if you issue one more SHA1 certificate we will distrust your CA". Certificate expiration failures are common, but not that common, because "needs a certificate" isn't the default for every host.

Key expiry is a much bigger problem for DNSSEC, since once you sign, every hostname in your whole zone depends on no RR in your DNS configuration expiring. But there are no stakeholders extracting any value from those expirations: nobody can say "if you sign one more record with RSA-1024 we will break your whole TLD".

Further, unlike with the WebPKI, where verification is conceptually offline --- you have a trust anchor and a signature chain and the verification is all done locally --- DNSSEC resolution is online: you have a TTL issue with revocation, but not a "this bogus signature will be valid for an entire year because there is no effective revocation system".

So, arguably, the RRSIG expiration field is another fundamental flaw with DNSSEC.

Re:DNSSEC failures are how you get people to disable DNSSEC by mike_hearn on Friday June 02, 2023 @05:47AM (#36163129)
Yes. It seems there's some thinking around doing offline validation for DNSSEC as part of DANE, so you'd get the proofs you need from DNSSEC on the server side, then combine those with a certificate and send that to TLS clients. That seems reasonable.
Re:DNSSEC failures are how you get people to disable DNSSEC by tptacek on Friday June 02, 2023 @10:41AM (#36165739)
There was an effort to staple DANE proofs to TLS handshakes, but it failed: if you could suborn a CA, you could control the TLS handshake enough to stripe the DANE proofs out, and the whole point of the DANE proofs was to avoid trusting CAs.
Re:DNSSEC failures are how you get people to disable DNSSEC by mike_hearn on Friday June 02, 2023 @11:37AM (#36166592)
Catch 22. To know the server wants to exclusively use DANE you must learn that in a secure way, like via DNSSEC, but the point of DANE is to not do interactive DNSSEC queries.

I guess if you're publishing an intent to use DANE stapling exclusively via DNS, then you could have tools that crawl the CT logs looking for CA issuances for domains that claim they don't want them. Though maybe detecting an attack in that way isn't worth much.

Re:DNSSEC failures are how you get people to disable DNSSEC by tptacek on Friday June 02, 2023 @11:54AM (#36166798)
There was talk of them proposing a pinning mechanism, but for understandable reasons the browser vendors were having none of it.