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Re:A Novel the CIA Spent a Fortune to Suppress by ANarrativeApe on Wednesday May 24, 2023 @11:22AM (#36059372)
What discredits a piece should be its accuracy, not its political leaning.

That the CIA was not created till 1947, as already pointed out by serallak, will, not stop me from adding the novel to my reading list.

What saddens is the willingness of the community to defend inaccuracy when they agree with the underlying point the inaccuracy is supporting. The author of the article could have said US Intelligence Assets, and forgone the clickbait of CIA. Putting SEO requirements ahead of factual accuracy, particularly when the fact is so easily fact checked, is not how the world gets changed for the better.

Re:A Novel the CIA Spent a Fortune to Suppress by iudqnolq on Wednesday May 24, 2023 @11:44AM (#36059697)
The title is correct: the CIA spent a significant amount of money to suppress the book. That the CIA was founded shortly after the book was published doesn't make that impossible.
Re:A Novel the CIA Spent a Fortune to Suppress by isleyaardvark on Wednesday May 24, 2023 @12:06PM (#36060059)
1946 the book was published, 1947 the CIA was created. Complaining that is an “inaccuracy” is pedantic.
Re:A Novel the CIA Spent a Fortune to Suppress by Convolutional on Wednesday May 24, 2023 @12:11PM (#36060155)
> 1946 the book was published, 1947 the CIA was created.

Right. So what is inaccurate in the piece? I don't see anything that contradicts this.

Re:A Novel the CIA Spent a Fortune to Suppress by isleyaardvark on Wednesday May 24, 2023 @01:20PM (#36061294)
I’m not disagreeing with you, just adding to your argument so everyone is clear just how close the two events were.
Re:A Novel the CIA Spent a Fortune to Suppress by Convolutional on Wednesday May 24, 2023 @11:32AM (#36059527)
This piece covers a period of time from the 1930s into the 1960s.

What is actually inaccurate? The CIA was doing the things the piece mentions from its inception onward.

Re:A Novel the CIA Spent a Fortune to Suppress by shkkmo on Wednesday May 24, 2023 @12:06PM (#36060060)
> The author of the article could have said US Intelligence Assets, and forgone the clickbait of CIA.

The author makes specific claims about the exact ways that the CIA tried to suppress the novel and author. Do you dispute any of them?

It's pretty rich to talk about "easily fact checked" when you don't engage at all with the factual basis for the claims your are disputing.

Re:A Novel the CIA Spent a Fortune to Suppress by dragonwriter on Wednesday May 24, 2023 @12:08PM (#36060088)
> The author makes specific claims about the exact ways that the CIA tried to suppress the novel and author. Do you dispute any of them?

Since the CIA did not, in fact, exist, any claims of what the CIA tried to do are self-evidently false, and need no more rebuttal than the date the CIA came into being.

The fact that the group specifically identified as the actual vehicle of suppression was “later” (date unspecified, but presumably after the CIA existed) revealed to have been operating as a CIA front doesn't mean that what they did before the CIA existed was on behalf of time travellers from the future when there was a CIA. If it was always a US intelligence front (which claim is not made or supported), then it would be accurate to blame it on the US or the US intelligence apparatus, but not the CIA. If the CIA infiltrated and took over the organization later, it wouldn't be accurate to blame the US at all. But what we do know with as kucb certainty as we know that effects do not precede their causes is that the CIA did not direct the suppression, as the article claims is “specifically” the case.

Re:A Novel the CIA Spent a Fortune to Suppress by Convolutional on Wednesday May 24, 2023 @12:13PM (#36060185)
> Since the CIA did not, in fact, exist, any claims of what the CIA tried to do are self-evidently false, and need no more rebuttal than the date the CIA came into being.

The CIA did not exist prior to its establishment in 1947, to use your nomenclature. So what is false? Everything it says the CIA did from 1947 to the 1960s is true.

Re:A Novel the CIA Spent a Fortune to Suppress by dragonwriter on Wednesday May 24, 2023 @12:16PM (#36060238)
> The CIA did not exist prior to its establishment in 1947, to use your nomenclature. So what is false?

The claim specifically made in the article that the delay in publication from 1936 to 1946 was due to CIA action through a front group.

Re:A Novel the CIA Spent a Fortune to Suppress by Convolutional on Wednesday May 24, 2023 @12:19PM (#36060301)
> The claim specifically made in the article that the delay in publication from 1936 to 1946 was due to CIA action through a front group.

It doesn't say that anywhere in the article. You've created a conditional in your head that is found nowhere in the article.

Re:A Novel the CIA Spent a Fortune to Suppress by jjk166 on Wednesday May 24, 2023 @12:42PM (#36060675)
No, it does say that.
Re:A Novel the CIA Spent a Fortune to Suppress by Convolutional on Wednesday May 24, 2023 @12:57PM (#36060914)
You would think if it was inaccurate, the inaccuracy could be quoted from and pointed to. You do not do so.

I see claims there is an inaccuracy there.

I see people doing paraphrases and inventing conditionals and saying they are inaccurate. Which they are. But they're not the original text.

It's pretty simple, quote some text and say why it is inaccurate.

As there are no inaccuracies of the type mentioned, this does not happen because it cannot happen.

Re:A Novel the CIA Spent a Fortune to Suppress by jjk166 on Wednesday May 24, 2023 @01:55PM (#36061759)
> But its 1946 debut reflected a delay of more than a decade by the country’s real dictators, who disrupted the novel’s genesis and sent its author into exile. And in this act of suppression, Asturias’s censors and exilers were aided by the US, specifically the CIA.

It's in the first paragraph. Emphasis mine. How could the CIA have aided foreign dictators prior to its existence?

Re:A Novel the CIA Spent a Fortune to Suppress by Convolutional on Wednesday May 24, 2023 @02:41PM (#36062325)
The first sentence blames the delay on the dictator of Guatemala, quite explicitly. Then in the next sentence it says the CIA aided in the suppression of the novel, which it did.

The text never days the CIA delayed the novel, it says the CIA aided in suppressing the novel. The CCF didn't even exist until the 1950s.

Re:A Novel the CIA Spent a Fortune to Suppress by jjk166 on Wednesday May 24, 2023 @05:24PM (#36064044)
"This act" refers to the delay. It is explicitly distinguished from other acts of suppression he faced at other points in his life.
Re:A Novel the CIA Spent a Fortune to Suppress by CatWChainsaw on Friday May 26, 2023 @12:03PM (#36085943)
OSS, maybe?
Re:A Novel the CIA Spent a Fortune to Suppress by smcin on Wednesday May 24, 2023 @06:54PM (#36064885)
Asturias was by chance discussed recently in "The Inventor of Magical Realism" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35860892
Re:A Novel the CIA Spent a Fortune to Suppress by dragonwriter on Wednesday May 24, 2023 @12:22PM (#36060346)
It claims the suppression was “specifically” by the CIA, and the first example of this suppression by the CIA it gives is the publication delay, ascribed to actions of a group, which it ties into the thesis by saying was later identified as a CIA front group.
Re:A Novel the CIA Spent a Fortune to Suppress by the_af on Wednesday May 24, 2023 @12:33PM (#36060525)
I assume you mean this paragraph from TFA:

> But its 1946 debut reflected a delay of more than a decade by the country’s real dictators, who disrupted the novel’s genesis and sent its author into exile. And in this act of suppression, Asturias’s censors and exilers were aided by the US, specifically the CIA.

I think it's clumsily worded. There was suppression of the novel and the author was exiled (the novel was self-published in Mexico in 1946, out of the author's own pockets). Guatemala's dictatorship was behind this and the US helped them. But the international discrediting of the author was orchestrated by the CIA through a front, and this took place many years after.

So "this" suppression that the CIA aided is not just 1946 -- that's poorly worded -- but in the ensuing years, after the CIA was already formed.

Re:A Novel the CIA Spent a Fortune to Suppress by jjk166 on Wednesday May 24, 2023 @02:04PM (#36061856)
No, in context "this suppression" is clearly referring to the disruption of the novel's genesis and the sending of its author into exile performed by the dictators in that period prior to 1946. The dictators are the censors and exilers being referenced in the next sentence.

It would have been easy to say that those actions were part of a broader suppression, or even just aiding in suppression with no qualifier, but specifying "this" makes it unambiguous that they are still talking about the same thing.

Re:A Novel the CIA Spent a Fortune to Suppress by the_af on Wednesday May 24, 2023 @02:06PM (#36061896)
I think if you take the full article as context, where they mention specific incidents in the 50's onwards, the context is not the period prior to 1946. I think it's just this specific paragraph that's clumsily worded.
Re:A Novel the CIA Spent a Fortune to Suppress by jjk166 on Wednesday May 24, 2023 @02:13PM (#36061982)
No, it is very clear even with the full context that at this point in the article they are referring to the delay of the book being published. The very next sentence states that there were multiple such examples of suppression over his career, indicating that "this act" was a specific one in a sequence of many.
Re:A Novel the CIA Spent a Fortune to Suppress by Convolutional on Wednesday May 24, 2023 @02:43PM (#36062352)
The act is the act of suppression, which they were involved in. They did not participate in the delay portion of the suppression, nor does it say they did.
Re:A Novel the CIA Spent a Fortune to Suppress by jjk166 on Thursday May 25, 2023 @12:28PM (#36072788)
It's not "the act" it's "this act" which they were not involved in. The article says they were involved in the delay, which is innaccurate. They may not have meant to say that, but that's what it says.
Re:A Novel the CIA Spent a Fortune to Suppress by the_af on Wednesday May 24, 2023 @06:59PM (#36064934)
I think that "this act" is poor editing. You cannot ignore the rest of the article.
Re:A Novel the CIA Spent a Fortune to Suppress by jjk166 on Thursday May 25, 2023 @12:25PM (#36072760)
Okay, well the article as written and interpreted using conventional english is inaccurate. Maybe what they meant to say would have been accurate.
Re:A Novel the CIA Spent a Fortune to Suppress by the_af on Wednesday May 24, 2023 @12:20PM (#36060321)
> Since the CIA did not, in fact, exist, any claims of what the CIA tried to do are self-evidently false, and need no more rebuttal than the date the CIA came into being.

This is false. The CIA didn't exist when the book was written, but its suppression activities of the author and its book by the CIA and its front started after the CIA was funded, and the article gives dates.

Re:A Novel the CIA Spent a Fortune to Suppress by shkkmo on Wednesday May 24, 2023 @12:52PM (#36060826)
> The fact that the group specifically identified as the actual vehicle of suppression was “later” (date unspecified, but presumably after the CIA existed) revealed to have been operating as a CIA front doesn't mean that what they did before the CIA existed was on behalf of time travellers from the future when there was a CIA.

It's not clear that you mean by "the group" but CCF, Cuaderno, PEN and Mondo Nuevo were all founded after the CIA.

> Since the CIA did not, in fact, exist, any claims of what the CIA tried to do are self-evidently false, and need no more rebuttal than the date the CIA came into being.

This is a farcical argument. You seem to struggle with the concept that an organization can work to suppress something that already existed when the organization was formed.

There are specific claims that are made about the steps that groups led by CIA operatives took to suppress the book and author. All of these events happened AFTER the CIA was founded.

You either lack basic reading comprehension / logic or are trolling.

Re:A Novel the CIA Spent a Fortune to Suppress by sillystuff on Wednesday May 24, 2023 @03:19PM (#36062760)
If this book interests you, here are a couple additional books to add to your reading list with similar subject matter:

Bitter Fruit: The Untold Story of the American Coup in Guatemala - Stephen Schlesinger and Stephen Kinzer

Las venas abiertas de América Latina - Eduardo Galeano

The English translation is titled, Open Veins of Latin America

(Isabel Allende said she carried a copy of Galeano's book with her as she fled the 1973 US backed coup that overthrew the democratic government in Chile and installed the brutal far-right murderous dictator Pinochet)