but the reason is simply, russia isnt out to destroy ukraine as a mortal enemy, as such, there are huge limitations to what can be done, and ukraine has some advantages here. if russia wanted to, they could simply bomb ukraine to pieces, all over ukraine, if they wanted to. They clearly done
Have you seen what Bakhmut looks like?. Russia is totally out to wipe Ukraine off the map that is their entire intention just like how Grozny looked after the Russians rolled through.
The difference is they are wholly incapable of implementing what they want to do.
I dont buy your motives for what russia is doing. Also, supposing you are in a war, REGARLDESS of reasons, good or bad, what would you suggest happen when there is an active conflict? Now sure, you can say(and im not arguing that this would be wrong): "russia can just not invade ukraine", and then there would be no destruction at all. Thats true, but suppose the decision has been made, as it has, even if you dont intend to destroy for the sake of destruction, things are gonna be destroyed in a conflict, would you not agree?
now I for one would prefer the money the state steals from me does not go to fund that destruction. I do not like to be partly funding a proxy war with russia.
Pretty much, Bakhmut is mostly due to artillery then anything else, I dont think they have enough missiles to reduce all cities in Ukraine to anything like that with missiles outside of using nukes, which instantly ends the Russian federation as a country itself.
> I dont buy your motives for what russia is doing. Also, supposing you are in a war, REGARLDESS of reasons, good or bad, what would you suggest happen when there is an active conflict? Now sure, you can say(and im not arguing that this would be wrong): "russia can just not invade ukraine", and then there would be no destruction at all. Thats true, but suppose the decision has been made, as it has, even if you dont intend to destroy for the sake of destruction, things are gonna be destroyed in a conflict, would you not agree?
You could not target civilian infrastructure on purpose, something that Russia continually does.
Why else would Russia lob missiles designed by the Soviet Union to take out aircraft carriers at malls in Kyiv?.
You could try your best not imitate the Nazis during WW2 when they where blitzing the British, but Russia seems incapable of rising above anything.
> now I for one would prefer the money the state steals from me does not go to fund that destruction. I do not like to be partly funding a proxy war with russia.
It's not funding its destruction, its funding its protection, this war would have happened regardless.
This war is not a proxy war but an imperialist war of conquest by Russia, the only thing stopping Russia from raping and torturing more Ukrainian men, women and children is the aid from the west.
This is before we get to the fact that aid to Ukraine currently makes up less then 10% of the American yearly military budget and most stuff they are getting is either getting phased out our old enough that it may be expiring.
Can you think of something better your tax dollars could go towards, you know instead of protecting foreign men, women and children from being raped, tortured and murdered by a imperialist country trying to conquer them?.
such as when Ukranians park their artillery right next to apartment buildings, or store military hardware in a home improvement store, or.....
> Why else would Russia lob missiles designed by the Soviet Union to take out aircraft carriers at malls in Kyiv?.
so you are saying they could in fact megabomb ukraine? okay
> It's not funding its destruction, its funding its protection, this war would have happened regardless.
the war happens regardless, what makes it end fastest? Im assuming fastest end means fewer casualties
> Can you think of something better your tax dollars could go towards, you know instead of protecting foreign men, women and children from being raped, tortured and murdered by a imperialist country trying to conquer them?.
Well certainly, a few off the top of my head: public schools are often not ventilated good enough. There are many bicycle roads that are severely under-maintained. Public healthcare is of quite abysmal quality here in Europe, contrary to the very rose colored picture painted by certain Americans about EU. Food quality at retirement homes is in many places utterly lousy. I would wish for many more fruit trees around public areas. The small rivers that I enjoy(ed) fishing in has not been maintained in around 2 decades, resulting in near impossibility to fish. I think it would be nice if some more dirtbike areas were funded, as its very few that have been allowed to exist due to noise complaints. One EU country Im familiar with has ended its evening/weekend suicide hotline to save costs. Police basically does not protect ordinary citizens. Break-in in your house? they wont lift a finger to find the perps. I would also like to strengthen border security. I would also find it more appealing if public money was spent not making new buildings so fabulously ugly, perhaps some classic architecture. I also found the old bronze statues to be quite appealing. I would not choose to voluntarily pay for them, but since im being robbed in the form of taxes, I'd rather pay for such here, than have the money to the nice dictator-comedian in Ukraine.
And then of course I would also prefer we dont cause our own citizens to have to suffer energy prices soaring to extreme degrees.
So yeah, I dont think its needed that I iterate more ideas, as there are clearly MANY, that are far far better to spend on, than this proxy war
And what about when the Russians decide to park there weapons inside capture Ukrainian nuclear power plants, or when they decide to booby trap dead bodies, or booby trap houses and trees such that when civilians go back into the city they die.
> so you are saying they could in fact megabomb ukraine? okay
They have super limited supplies of this missiles and given how many they have already used in there limited but horrific damage to civilian life in Ukraine I don't think they are capable of doing it using long range precision weapons alone.
Not that, that would end the war anyway see the blitz during WW2, all that targeting civilians does is increase a countries resolve to fight the battle that they are already in, terror bombing regardless of who does it, does not really dissuade anyone.
I'm surprised that you support razing cities to the ground, my guess given how supportive you are of this war is that you 100% backed Americans imperialistic invasions and razing of multiple cities in the middle east, after all they targeted military targets in a much more discerning manner then Russia ever did.
> I'd rather pay for such here, than have the money to the nice dictator-comedian in Ukraine.
And the truth comes out, you propagandist really need to get new lines, I understand now that your just another Russian supporter who's more then happy for Ukraine to be terror bombed into oblivion.
> So yeah, I dont think its needed that I iterate more ideas, as there are clearly MANY, that are far far better to spend on, than this proxy war
Yeah this all bullshit. Its never been a proxy war except for those who tried to justify Russias imperialistic ambitions, maybe if they paid less to support propagandist like yourself and actually decided to invest in their military instead they may win, but alas here we are.
You sound like someone who would of campaigned for the Nazis to stop American involvement in WW2.
im not defending what russia does, i dont know why you think I am
> I'm surprised that you support razing cities to the ground, my guess given how supportive you are of this war is that you 100% backed Americans imperialistic invasions and razing of multiple cities in the middle east, after all they targeted military targets in a much more discerning manner then Russia ever did.
I think it is very very unkind of you to assume I support what russia, or anyone else for that matter, is doing
> And the truth comes out, you propagandist really need to get new lines, I understand now that your just another Russian supporter who's more then happy for Ukraine to be terror bombed into oblivion.
nothing could be further from the truth, I would prefer nobody kills eachother, but at the same time, I also dont want to get in the middle of what other people are doing in this case. but indeed, the truth does come out, and about a magnificent 100% of times everyone lies about war, why should I magically believe in what the governments that has a track record of total lies regarding the wars they want to fund/start/participate in says. THIS time its different, im sure....
> Yeah this all bullshit.
It is not. It is clearly a proxy war, and the list of things I gave would provide far more value to me, and I suspect many others. Why do you presume to think you have the right to my labour for YOUR causes?
For someone who isn't defending what Russia is doing you sure have a lot of the same opinions as the people who are thrilled about what Russia is doing.
> I think it is very very unkind of you to assume I support what russia, or anyone else for that matter, is doing
Then maybe you should act like it. Cause you certainly act like someone who 100% supports what Russia is doing.
> nothing could be further from the truth, I would prefer nobody kills eachother, but at the same time, I also dont want to get in the middle of what other people are doing in this case. but indeed, the truth does come out, and about a magnificent 100% of times everyone lies about war, why should I magically believe in what the governments that has a track record of total lies regarding the wars they want to fund/start/participate in says. THIS time its different, im sure....
I think the Ukrainians would prefer that too, but someone brought war to their land so they are responding.
To be neutral in a conflict between an aggressor and a defender, is to be inherently for the aggressor.
If someone was being raped on the street, surely you would do something (like call the police) you wouldn't just ignore it and walk away with "I also dont want to get in the middle of what other people are doing in this case" would you?.
> It is not. It is clearly a proxy war, and the list of things I gave would provide far more value to me, and I suspect many others. Why do you presume to think you have the right to my labour for YOUR causes?
You are probably paying less than 1.2% of your tax for America to help here, to help a country defend its borders from an incursion, to defend a countries people from a brutal attempted genocide, rape and torture.
I understand not caring about your neighbours and the "fuck you, got mine" attitude is very prevalent in America but this is a pretty extreme lack of caring about your fellow man.
i wouldnt know, but it is definitely possible to not like what is happening in Ukraine, whilst also finding the comedian dictator to be a disgrace, and simultaneously not want to fund any kind of fighting in ukraine.
> Then maybe you should act like it. Cause you certainly act like someone who 100% supports what Russia is doing.
Im sure there are many commonalities. You probably prefer to breathe air, so do I, and so does mr putin.. But please provide some concrete examples.
> To be neutral in a conflict between an aggressor and a defender, is to be inherently for the aggressor.
That is simply not correct, and I suspect you know that.
> If someone was being raped on the street, surely you would do something (like call the police) you wouldn't just ignore it and walk away with "I also dont want to get in the middle of what other people are doing in this case" would you?.
To mr putin: please stop attacking ukraine. to the UN: please tell putin my sentiments. to comedy dictator: "your" country is being attacked.
Okay, called police.
> I understand not caring about your neighbours and the "fuck you, got mine" attitude is very prevalent in America but this is a pretty extreme lack of caring about your fellow man.
Not from America, not in the US. You dont seem to understand that this issue is far far more complex than some random guy being attacked in the streets. Pretending anything else is at best ignorance. but even asserting your accusation of "fuck you, got mine" to be true, all that means is that you may accuse me of not caring about my neighbor, and while that isnt true, thats ALL. You went a fair bit further and accused me of supporting what goes on, not giving a shit about rape/torture/killing, and surely you must realize that this is an accusation that is completely unfounded, and a personal attack that probably stems from a very emotional and irrational anger towards anyone that does not do exactly what you feel must be done.
Heres a factoid: mr Putin has done less to harm me than people who would want me to pay for a war I am not involved in, Hell, you just accused me of supporting raping/torturing/killing innocents in the street. Putin has not done that to me.
So yeah, your personal attacks and insults have failed to sway me, and I remain with my original thoughts of staying out of it
Wow you’re towing a Russian propaganda line again. Surprise surprise you breaking out unsubstantiated claims about Ukraine to try and make them look bad to dissuade aid to them.
FYI if your no in America you’re likely not paying anything into this fight that makes any difference in anyway shape or form to your taxes.
> Im sure there are many commonalities. You probably prefer to breathe air, so do I, and so does mr putin.. But please provide some concrete examples.
Your post history is littered with talking points straight out of Russian propaganda, points that you continually raise with zero evidence.
> To mr putin: please stop attacking ukraine. to the UN: please tell putin my sentiments. to comedy dictator: "your" country is being attacked. Okay, called police.
The comedy dictator stuff is what really shows you for who you are. Where is any evidence of this at all? All you do is repeat Russian propaganda like a robot.
> Not from America, not in the US.
If you’re not from America that any aid to Ukraine likely makes up a tiny fraction of a percent of your tax.
> So yeah, your personal attacks and insults have failed to sway me, and I remain with my original thoughts of staying out of it
Unsurprised really just like how I’m sure if your where around during WW2 you would be waving your “why not peace with hitler” sign.
A better question to ask, is why has the "2nd most powerful military" on earth failing to capture a city <=300km from their own borders? and with there current rate of advancement will take all of Ukraine in ~30/40 years.