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Re:EU rules allowing “exceptional” use of spyware against jo... by jruohonen on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @10:28AM (#36044831)
All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others, and there are uses and then there are exceptional uses.
Re:EU rules allowing “exceptional” use of spyware against jo... by stonecactus on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @12:42PM (#36046893)
So everybody should become a journalist now.
Re:EU rules allowing “exceptional” use of spyware against jo... by galleywest200 on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @11:58PM (#36053914)
I have a blog. If I write a non-fiction post can I be classified as journalist for the purposes of this regulation?
Re:EU rules allowing “exceptional” use of spyware against jo... by LatteLazy on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @10:39AM (#36044983)
There needs to be definition of "exceptional". Most "exceptional" use exemptions rapidly become routine...
Re:EU rules allowing “exceptional” use of spyware against jo... by jruohonen on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @10:43AM (#36045037)
Indeed. It is a clear blanket clause. Nothing changes, but at least they (EP) tried. I am increasingly starting to think that the Council is the root of most problems in the EU.
Re:EU rules allowing “exceptional” use of spyware against jo... by arlort on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @10:59AM (#36045276)
> they (EP) tried

The EP didn't do anything yet, right now as far as I can tell the only concrete document we have is the initial commission draft proposal

> starting to think that the Council is the root of most problems in the EU

Starting? (semi-/s)

Re:EU rules allowing “exceptional” use of spyware against jo... by jruohonen on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @11:17AM (#36045540)
I stand corrected: I haven't followed the EFMA proposal in detail, so I thought it was already in trilogues.

As for the Council: if they really are going to open up the treaties, everyone should be up to arms against the non-democratic practices and grey areas.

Re:EU rules allowing “exceptional” use of spyware against jo... by arlort on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @12:04PM (#36046289)
There isn't really anything non-democratic about the council to be honest. Not in a manner that would be fixable by treaty

The issue is mostly one of awareness, if people cared about the Council there'd be political interest for other politicians to keep ministers more accountable. As is no one even knows what the Council is and who is on it. No national politician is going to waste political capital on council oversight

The main issue with the Council of ministers is that it's a legislative body made up of executive branch actors, I don't like that on a philosophical level. Would be much better if they were replaced by national legislature delegates. Same voting system, same competencies and powers, just 1-2 hundred members instead of 27+1

Re:EU rules allowing “exceptional” use of spyware against jo... by jruohonen on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @01:53PM (#36048141)
Good that you brought this argument. It is a very thorny issue; we are talking about the equality of states versus the equality of citizens.

I for one support the supranational democracy element and not the intergovernmental one. For all things related to civil rights, including privacy and other things, the good things have always come from the supranational level, whereas the intergovernmental arrangement has always watered things down (or worse). The rot traces to the Lisbon Treaty.

It is a schizophrenic system: high-level politicians (ministers) are deciding things at the EU-level (such as building an "ECHOLON" like someone noted below) and then coming back to their national constituencies saying that "Brussels did it".

Re:EU rules allowing “exceptional” use of spyware against jo... by coretx on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @01:01PM (#36047226)
And their COREPER henchman ;-) Those invisible relics from the coal and steel union are invisible for the electorate and don't represent the member states but rather the government of the member-states, thus is a minority wiping out a majority. All the while they do policy laundry on a EU echelon without anyone batting a eye.
Re:EU rules allowing “exceptional” use of spyware against jo... by jruohonen on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @02:14PM (#36048461)
Yeah. The "very democratic" bodies like CIVCOM and INTCEN surely never yield any power over these "exceptional use case" clauses.
Re:EU rules allowing “exceptional” use of spyware against jo... by unmole on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @10:54AM (#36045208)
The self-proclaimed guardians of freedom and democracy, ladies and gentlemen.
Re:EU rules allowing “exceptional” use of spyware against jo... by fnordpiglet on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @10:57AM (#36045246)
Just click accept, everything will be ok.
Re:EU rules allowing “exceptional” use of spyware against jo... by awegio on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @11:24AM (#36045647)
If I understand correctly, the proposed act restricts the use of spyware, and apparently some actors want to keep some loopholes.

The title reads like the EU wants to allow uses of spyware that were not allowed before, but I cannot infer that from the very limited information given in this article.

Re:EU rules allowing “exceptional” use of spyware against jo... by ChuckNorris89 on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @12:56PM (#36047128)
How about laws for mandating spyware on our elected politicians?
Re:EU rules allowing “exceptional” use of spyware against jo... by hulitu on Wednesday May 24, 2023 @10:02AM (#36058213)
> How about laws for mandating spyware on our elected politicians?

What ? Hell, no. They are human beings and have a right to privacy. /s

Re:EU rules allowing “exceptional” use of spyware against jo... by Spivak on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @11:28AM (#36045722)
I don't think its particularly reasonable to expect "emergency powers" to be anything other than nigh blanket authorization because, well, in such a situation they'll do it anyway and this is at least honest about it.

"Oh shit a journalist is leaking our military's <sensitive data> which might actually affect the war -- track them down, you have full operational discretion."

No government official is even going to consider the minutia of the law before issuing an order.

Re:EU rules allowing “exceptional” use of spyware against jo... by hulitu on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @01:15PM (#36047462)
They tracked journalists before even without the excuse of a war. Nothing will stop them now.
Re:EU rules allowing “exceptional” use of spyware against jo... by jruohonen on Tuesday May 23, 2023 @01:37PM (#36047843)
I am not sure whether this example is a good one. While you can probably do interception and the like in a moment's notice, planting an implant is a different thing. As zero-click exploits are still rare, you need a spear phishing or the like, meaning that a person is already likely under surveillance.
Re:EU rules allowing “exceptional” use of spyware against jo... by amadeuspagel on Wednesday May 24, 2023 @09:40AM (#36057900)
Typical european discourse. No concern about spyware as such, about end-to-end encryption, but we want some special carve out for journalists.
Re:EU rules allowing “exceptional” use of spyware against jo... by moi2388 on Wednesday May 24, 2023 @09:59AM (#36058171)
Why is it okay to spy on and send malware to regular citizens but not journalists? That makes zero sense to me.
Re:EU rules allowing “exceptional” use of spyware against jo... by hulitu on Wednesday May 24, 2023 @10:04AM (#36058239)
Because journalists are the defenders of democracy. /s