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Re:Renewables supplied 65% of new US utility-scale generatin... by reaperman on Wednesday May 17, 2023 @11:18AM (#35976551)
You’re not understanding. This is a discussion about baseload power.

Situation: We need more baseload power.

Option 1) Build a nuclear fission plant. Costs $10 billion.

Option 2) Build a combination of pumped water storage, solid oxide fuel cells, or battery storage to store excess wind and solar. Costs $12 billion.

Option 3) Tear down existing nuclear plants ($5 billion PER demolition), continue paying on their existing loans, and then build $12 billion of energy storage plus billions more additional wind and solar installation. Cost: $20 billion

For expected x lives/farmland saved, it may be reasonable to spend $2 billion more but not spend $10 billion more for the same effect. That’s not internally inconsistent, your view just doesn’t encapsulate the ability to spend the other $8 billion or so on medical advancements or environmental rehabilitation efforts or fusion development. Or it fails to acknowledge to difference in cost between decommissioning vs not building in the first place.

Re:Renewables supplied 65% of new US utility-scale generatin... by Dylan16807 on Wednesday May 17, 2023 @02:08PM (#35979064)
That all makes sense from a construction cost perspective.

But you were making an argument about how unholy dangerous nuclear plants are as a reason not to build them, barely even mentioning cost. If that danger is real it should be more important than those billions. There's also a fourth option of tearing down nuclear plants and replacing them with a mixture of wind solar and coal, to mitigate that enormous danger at a reduced cost.

If the danger isn't actually enough to motivate plan 3, then you were massively overselling it. Even more so if it's not enough to motivate the cheaper plan 4.

Re:Renewables supplied 65% of new US utility-scale generatin... by reaperman on Wednesday May 17, 2023 @02:55PM (#35979628)
> you were massively overselling it.

My thesis was "I don't consider nuclear to be sustainable. Here's why I think it's not sustainable." I wasn't saying "It's worse than coal.", I wasn't even saying "There are NO circumstances under which anyone should ever build more fission plants." - - I don't particularly have a strong opinion on whether coal or nuclear are worse but offhand I suspect the answer is coal -- it's definitely in the same broad category of causing non-remediateable pollution. So I probably wouldn't suggest spending a shitload of money to replace nuclear plants with something that's at least qualitatively similarly bad like coal.

I would suggest spending 20% more to get an actually sustainable solution to baseload power. But I would understand someone who says:

- 20% is way too low, actual cost would be much more

- 20% more isn't worth the benefits vs. what else we could spend the money on

- Even if fission isn't environmentally sustainable, we should still use it instead of coal

But arguments like these will not hold any water with me:

- Fission can't possibly poison land even though it has before

- Something that will eventually poison large amounts of land if neglected for 2,000 years is "environmentally sustainable"

- Fission is better than coal so you're not allowed to claim that fission isn't "sustainable" because that makes you an opponent to progress and we have tell ourselves lies about that to make progress happen.