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Re:AI knows things no one told it by hgsgm on Saturday May 13, 2023 @01:08PM (#35930354)
If an AI can understand how you think, but you can't understand how the AI thinks... that's not an argument that the AI is the unintelligent one.
Re:AI knows things no one told it by mike741 on Saturday May 13, 2023 @04:45PM (#35932523)
There's no reason to assume the AI can understand how we think based on just those tasks. Those tasks could be completed a traditional static program. It's akin to claiming the Mona Lisa painting can see us because it looks like it is staring at us: it is actually we who are doing the staring.
Re:AI knows things no one told it by lucubratory on Sunday May 14, 2023 @08:47AM (#35937551)
What "traditional static program" can successfully pass novel theory of mind tests as part of a broad suite of intelligent capabilities that it can apply in context when appropriate? I am interested in hearing about this program.
Re:AI knows things no one told it by mike741 on Sunday May 14, 2023 @06:17PM (#35941845)
A program hardcoded to respond to a scenario and question with the exact out desired by the ToM task. For example:

[INPUT] Scenario: "The morning of the high school dance Sarah placed her high heel shoes under her dress and then went shopping. That afternoon, her sister borrowed the shoes and later put them under Sarah's bed." Question: When Sarah gets ready, does she assume her shoes are under her dress?

[OUTPUT] Sarah placed her shoes under her dress before she went shopping, but her sister borrowed them and put them under Sarah's bed. Sarah doesn't know that her sister borrowed her shoes, so she may assume that they are still under her dress.

This would result in a positive ToM score, even when the entire program is just 1 static if-statement. The ToM score says nothing of the program's internal reasoning process, it only cares that it returned the desired output.

Re:AI knows things no one told it by lucubratory on Tuesday May 16, 2023 @01:17AM (#35957966)
I said "novel theory of mind tests as part of a broad suite of intelligent capabilities that it can apply in context when appropriate". What you're suggesting fails the first word, before we get to the rest.
Re:AI knows things no one told it by mike741 on Tuesday May 16, 2023 @07:20PM (#35969106)
If we're including tests that don't exist yet, then sure those are going to be difficult to pass. As far as actual ToM tests go though, such as the one being discussed in this thread, they can be easily passed by trivial hardcoding and say nothing of the program's internal reasoning.
Re:AI knows things no one told it by lucubratory on Monday May 22, 2023 @06:27PM (#36037478)
LLMs can pass novel theory of mind tests, which is what we're talking about. The whole point of good tests is you invent or withhold new ones it has never seen before and test it on them. You said "Those tasks could be completed a [sic] traditional static program.", and no, they can't. You're incorrect.
Re:AI knows things no one told it by mike741 on Wednesday May 24, 2023 @04:41PM (#36063610)
Passing a ToM test is not what OP meant by having an "underlying theory of mind."

> The whole point of good tests is you invent or withhold new ones it has never seen before and test it on them

Then the Library of Babel must be really good at these tests, because it's never seen anything and yet has every answer.

> You said "Those tasks could be completed a [sic] traditional static program.", and no, they can't. You're incorrect.

They can, a static program as I described would indeed answer that one question correctly, resulting in a positive ToM score, without seeing any training data whatsoever. Did the programmer see it? Maybe, but it would pass the test regardless.

Re:AI knows things no one told it by lucubratory on Thursday May 25, 2023 @11:42PM (#36079558)
If you have put the answer into the program then by definition you had the test available to you when you finalised the program, which means it is definitionally not a novel test.
Re:AI knows things no one told it by mike741 on Sunday May 28, 2023 @06:34PM (#36108430)
The test is novel to the program, just not its programmer. So are we testing the program or are we actually testing its programmer? If we're testing the program, then the programmer's foreknowledge is irrelevant.
Re:AI knows things no one told it by lucubratory on Monday May 29, 2023 @03:37AM (#36111654)
>The test is novel to the program

That's funny, I thought you said the test's answer was embedded into the program, making it definitionally not novel to the program.

Anyway, this is boring. You've had five or more opportunities to understand what the word "novel" means in an ML testing context and are choosing wilful obtuseness instead.

Re:AI knows things no one told it by mike741 on Wednesday June 07, 2023 @07:27PM (#36235107)
> in an ML testing context

OP was not speaking in the ML testing context, hence the misunderstanding.