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Re:Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts by mindslight on Friday May 12, 2023 @05:57PM (#35923007)
The fundamental problem is that the misguided attempt to criminalize drugs destroyed respect for the law for generations. Once you're at risk of being locked in a cage for decades for engaging in behavior that would otherwise just be called running a small business, then robbery isn't a huge leap. Especially after your industry ends up creating its own parallel justice system because the usual courts have been made unavailable.

So yes, while drugs should be deillegalized and those crimes expunged, this is only but a first step on a long road to repairing the severe damage that was done to law and order by the very people fallaciously rallying behind "law and order" in the 80's and 90's.

Re:Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts by kevviiinn on Friday May 12, 2023 @06:12PM (#35923149)
Basically, being in a police state has normalized crime. Yes, the US is a police state. Hell, the police have crazy influence over politics as well
Re:Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts by pb7 on Friday May 12, 2023 @06:19PM (#35923216)
I looked up "police state" and got this:

>a totalitarian state controlled by a political police force that secretly supervises the citizens' activities

Can you explain how the US is all of those things?

Re:Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts by hn_throawlles on Friday May 12, 2023 @08:07PM (#35924055)
they use your intel against you,

don't know about amd.... * slaps knee *

Re:Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts by kevviiinn on Friday May 12, 2023 @09:03PM (#35924390)
The police unions have a crazy amount of influence over politics where the basically just cry if they don't get their way and threaten to not go after criminals, it's happened in multiple states iirc

Basically every step of the way, whenever some sort of reform comes up they fight it tooth and nail while simultaneously grabbing every bit of extra power that they can.

These powers include things like surveillance and literal highway robbery in the form of civil forfeiture. In the way of surveillance, they can now purchase peoples data and there are companies selling services to police which analyze and track citizens movements without a warrant. Combine this with a story I saw on HN earlier today about a company purchasing live footage feeds from citizen surveillance cameras for cops to, again without a warrant, use at will.

But wait, there's more!

There are also electronic communications surveillance programs such as prism (NSA) and hemisphere (DEA) combined with the magic of parallel construction to obfuscate the fact that any surveillance was even used to spy on citizens illegally.

Cops basically get to do whatever they want without any sort of punishment when they do harm to citizens, which they do regularly including murdering innocent ones. Perhaps you've heard of the LASD gangs that terrorize the communities they're supposed to be protecting? It's well documented and has been going on for years, it still is.

Prosecutors and judges generally side with the cops because they need them to do their jobs, they have undue influence not only over prosecution but also legislation in the form of strikes and union lobbying.

Police unions are probably the only union I think should be dismantled, all other unions for workers are great but police unions are actively harmful to society.

Re:Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts by pb7 on Friday May 12, 2023 @10:10PM (#35924779)
I agree police unions are awful and cause more harm than good. Everything you say is true (to some degree) but I don't think this qualifies the country to be a police state. I'm not afraid of the police coming to my door because the police have a problem with me. I don't like them but I don't fear them and neither does anyone I know. There is still a due process and even though even one incident is too many, most times the police acts out of line they are punished even if it takes a while (again, due process). The punishment is usually far, far too lenient but at the very least, for the sake of this conversation, shows that they do not have the ultimate power.

There is a lot that can be done about the quality of policing in this country but we are really far off a police state. We are simply a state with an incompetent perpetually afraid power hungry police, likely due to the prevalence of guns. It's tragic as is.

Re:Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts by kevviiinn on Friday May 12, 2023 @10:48PM (#35925008)
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Maybe you aren't the target now but who's to say you won't be in the future? Consider your perspective versus those who live in predominantly Black communities

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...

Re:Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts by mindslight on Saturday May 13, 2023 @09:32AM (#35928189)
I thought GP was being ridiculous and hyperbolic when I first read their comment yesterday, but on second thought it's more technically correct than not. Regulating what substances people can use to affect their own bodies is totalitarian, as it presupposes state/societal ownership of individuals' bodies. Mass surveillance plus parallel construction most certainly constitutes secret supervision. And any attempt to reform the system is met with a strong lobby from police and prison guards, who have long ago succumbed to Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy. It's not the stereotypical power-trickles-down-from-a-small-cabal-to-control-society, but rather the analog in the framework of inverted totalitarianism.

Of course there are different degrees, and throwing out these characterizations in a thread about even more totalitarian societies would be inappropriate whataboutism. But as domestic societal critique they do have some truth.

Re:Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts by kevviiinn on Saturday May 13, 2023 @10:19AM (#35928680)
The thing is that some people don't have the same experience with police leading them to believe that there is no issue with our current system, that's why you see such denial of the damage caused
Re:Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts by Tyrek on Friday May 12, 2023 @06:56PM (#35923585)
Yeah, locking up Elizabeth Holmes and SBF for running a small business will destroy respect for the law for generations. How dare we?!
Re:Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts by flextheruler on Friday May 12, 2023 @09:13PM (#35924457)
I don’t have a problem with some drugs being state regulated and I know it would reduce violence but the harder drugs should never be state sold we already have huge issues with alcohol which is a very hard drug. Acting as if lone actors serving narcotics or prostitutes are regular small business owner is an insult to legitimate entrepreneurs
Re:Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts by cdogl on Friday May 12, 2023 @10:19PM (#35924824)
Aside from the legality, what’s different between a liquor store owner and a weed dealer? You may disagree with their breaking the law, but commerce is commerce, and this is victimless except with regard to the rule of law.
Re:Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts by throwaway57443 on Friday May 12, 2023 @11:08PM (#35925092)
Alcohol serves purposes other than intoxication. A fine wine is terrible thing to drink for inebriation; good vodka is cheaper with fewer side effects.

That being said consumption of alcohol and drugs are not victimless. The beated wife, the ignored children. Sons growing up with father figure with no drive to self improvement. Therefore, I wouldn't mind rolling back a lot of the alcohol liberalization of the past few decades.

Re:Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts by mindslight on Saturday May 13, 2023 @09:03AM (#35927983)
There are other ways to handle abuse and addiction besides trying to prohibit a widely-desired substance. You rightfully point out that some people have huge problems with alcohol. The solution isn't just to blanket make it illegal (with the ensuing chaos that would/did cause), but rather directly address the acute harm caused by the people with the problems.

Ultimately the reason we consider some things natural rights isn't to create some prescriptive model for the shape of an enlightened society. Rather it's due to the inevitable ugliness when the government attempts to legislate into individual autonomy, and people react en masse. And the results of the "drug war" have most certainly been quite ugly!