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Re:Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM I... by sashank_1509 on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @07:34AM (#35885991)
Can someone knowledgeable explain to me why the military keeps intervening. Is this basically the same situation as Turkey had where the military was commanded on Turkey’s founding by the Ataturk to prevent a religious fundamentalist takeover of the country, and so whenever they felt the elected government was becoming too “religious”, they deposed the government (now of course erdogan is in control, because he ensured to infiltrate the military after having a bad experience with them in the past.)
Re:Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM I... by dmurray on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @07:40AM (#35886026)
Those seem like very ideologically pure motives to attribute to a political decision.

Maybe the generals just think they'd like to run the country for a while, and they've promised their colonels positions of power, and the colonels have promised their lieutenants promotions, and so on all the way down.

Re:Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM I... by sashank_1509 on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @08:22AM (#35886322)
These personal reasons would always exist. I’m curious about the justification they would provide to the rest of the world about why they intervened? That gives the moral basis for their use of power. I personally think, even if good rewards existed without a justification to provide that is consistent with their morality/ history of the country it would be very hard for the military to depose a government like they do in Pakistan. Though I suppose now that it has happened so many times in Pakistan, there is good precedent and this justification is less necessary.
Re:Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM I... by johntiger1 on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @09:42AM (#35887237)
Does it matter? Hitler/Stalin/Mao also had 'good reasons' that they claimed for for doing the things they do. End of the day, the military is clinging to power
Re:Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM I... by sashank_1509 on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @11:35AM (#35888907)
No, I’d say you’re completely wrong on that part. Hitler/ Stalin/ Mao is a very bad example of institutions clinging to power through pure force. Each of those examples, had grand visions of what was right and why they were justified to completely take over the government. I would even venture that in each of those cases there was broad popular support at the start which led to the complete overthrow of the government.

An incident where power was taken to rule a country just because you could without any great moral basis was probably Pinochet in Chile, not many examples of this case exist.

Re:Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM I... by ethbr0 on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @02:39PM (#35891549)
Slobodan Milošević in Yugoslavia

As near as I can tell, he started from "Take over the government" and surfed his way there by reading (and stoking populist energy)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xscsu_QGbLg

Re:Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM I... by vishnugupta on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @04:53PM (#35893361)
> there is good precedent and this justification is less necessary

I guess this is more or less the reason. They probably see themselves as the first line of defence in internal security unlike at other democratic countries.

The repeated military intervention in internal matters has set off a positive feedback loop where those capable enough and wanting to bring positive impact join the military. So remaining institutions (civil services, police, law& order, politics etc.,) continue to erode and get more corrupt.

Re:Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM I... by victor106 on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @07:54AM (#35886092)
I am sorry to say but at this point Pakistan is a failed state.

It’s fascinating to see how India just leaped ahead of Pakistan even though they both got independence at the same time and were essentially the same people divided based on religion.

I hate to say this but maybe there’s something to be said about religion here.

Re:Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM I... by EricHolden12 on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @08:11AM (#35886208)
I would rather live in Pakistan despite it allegedly being a “failed state” according to you over India any day of the week. I’m sure many Indians will agree.

Also, independence at the same time isn’t the only factor. Jinnah made a bad deal for Pakistan and now they are paying the price (the break off essentially said here India, you can keep this land an the entire history of India as a country, we’ll just be this new thing in the side called Pakistan). Because of this, Pakistan is still a baby of a country. About 76 years old. It has a lot of growing up to do.

Re:Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM I... by hutzlibu on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @08:27AM (#35886356)
"I would rather live in Pakistan despite it allegedly being a “failed state” according to you over India any day of the week."

Can you give reasons for this? I have never been to either country, but I know many people who travelled all over india, but allmost none, who traveled in Pakistan, because as a westener you cannot even travel in many places there at all, or in others without police guiding you (and you paying them).

Re:Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM I... by EricHolden12 on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @08:29AM (#35886382)
It’s just cleaner.
Re:Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM I... by crop_rotation on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @08:31AM (#35886403)
You make so many claims without evidence or even explanation. Extraordinary claims like "I’m sure many Indians will agree." require some evidence, if not extraordinary evidence.

You talk of the bad deal Jinnah made but again don't say what it was. I hope you are not seriously suggesting that the new country name slowed down progress. > "we’ll just be this new thing in the side called Pakistan). Because of this, Pakistan is still a baby of a country. "

Re:Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM I... by EricHolden12 on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @08:36AM (#35886444)
I can state my opinion. I don’t owe you anything.
Re:Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM I... by crop_rotation on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @08:40AM (#35886471)
You don't owe anyone anything and I don't demand anything from you. My comment highlights the flaws in your argument for other readers to easily see that your comment is a rant and not a well thought out argument.
Re:Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM I... by EricHolden12 on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @08:41AM (#35886479)
Yes, and?
Re:Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM I... by roncesvalles on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @08:28AM (#35886369)
>I would rather live in Pakistan despite it allegedly being a "failed state" according to you over India any day of the week.

That's understandable if you're Pakistani and have a nostalgia for home, or perhaps some special affinity for their cuisine, but is nonsensical otherwise.

>I’m sure many Indians will agree.

So you might hear sometimes in Indian social media or op-eds the phrase "I'd rather live in Pakistan" (and to a greater degree "You should go live in Pakistan") but that's almost always used provocatively, because of how ridiculous it is. I don't even think that most Indian Muslims would prefer Pakistan over India.

Re:Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM I... by morbidious on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @08:30AM (#35886388)
Any Indian reading your comment is going to have a good laugh.
Re:Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM I... by namadaza on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @12:43PM (#35889871)
Bangladesh and Indonesia, two countries in similar parts of the world, with a majority Muslim population, are much more stable, with strong, growing economies.

Maybe there's something positive to be said about religion here as well I guess? Reaching for a simple answer for a complex problem is plainly intellectually dishonest.

Re:Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM I... by peanuty1 on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @05:31PM (#35893806)
I'm ethnically Bangladeshi. Bangladesh is officially a secular country (at least in theory - religion is still a big part of day-to-day life) that has a significant Hindu minority whereas Pakistan is an "Islamic Republic". Your average Bangladeshi is less religious than the average Pakistani.
Re:Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM I... by kalimanzaro on Thursday May 11, 2023 @02:33AM (#35898499)
Ditto for Indonesia
Re:Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM I... by incomingpain on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @08:41AM (#35886481)
Pakistan is the only true Muslim country in the world. There is no 'too religious'. I think you're missing the much larger picture. All of the conflict in that area is connected.

Turkey is melting down because of their public positions on various matters; especially Xinjiang; not to mention poor decisions around fiscal policy.

Pakistan and Khan mess. Super happy they finally arrested him. We shall see how it goes, I'm optimistic it should stabilize pakistan.

Karakoram highway is a huge deal. The probability it doesn't get blown up is quite low.

Kashmir matters no doubt, but this will make talks between the 2 nuclear powers never happen.

Khalistan/Punjab, I must admit I'm surprised how many gurdwars are flying the khalistan flags here in Canada. It's their last chance for at least a generation if they want it to happen. It's not going to happen this time, they likely popped this movement. Some entity pushed it too soon.

Ladakh conflicts... Basically China isn't happy about a road being built toward them in ladakh. 250,000 indian troops vs 60,000 chinese troops accidentally collided... 3 times. But dont worry it was just 'melee' or 'skirmish' and was no big deal... India proceeded to ban all of china's internet things. China has been a sleeping tiger for decades and they wake up to attack india? Interesting. Not saying they are wrong, but China also understands why and what's going on.

Everything points to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_genocide

https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/03/02/why-erdogan-has-abandon...

But more importantly we are 4 days away from the turkish election. Erdogan is likely to lose.

Re:Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM I... by EricHolden12 on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @08:54AM (#35886617)
>Pakistan and Khan mess. Super happy they finally arrested him. We shall see how it goes, I'm optimistic it should stabilize pakistan.

Hahahahahahahaahahahahahaha.

By this, your definition of stabilize is that the USA is again more firmly in command of Pakistan as a country. Khan is an antagonist who tried and failed to get Pakistan to be truly independent and not controlled by any other nation. Pakistan is unfortunately a pawn in geopolitical moves, and with his arrest the stooges in place will happily bend and dance for the powers that be as long as they can pocket a tidy sum.

Re:Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM I... by local_crmdgeon on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @08:56AM (#35886640)
The first line is a strong claim, and KSA as well as Iran would disagree.

Pakistan may say the have Sharia, but hadd is rarely enforced as far as I know. Theft is common and so are gangs.

Re:Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM I... by incomingpain on Thursday May 11, 2023 @08:15AM (#35901046)
From day 1 the intention of pakistan was to form a true ideologically religious state based on islam.

Iran and others are muslim countries no doubt but they aren't melding national interests with islam at any significant degree.

Sure, 'no true scotsman' and your point of enforcement. I stand by my point.

Re:Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM I... by selimthegrim on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @12:25PM (#35889626)
I know that Musharraf used to say Pakistan is fortress of Islam but saying you’re the only true Muslim country in the world is kind of a stretch no? Why? Blasphemy laws? Nukes?
Re:Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM I... by ryzvonusef on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @09:49AM (#35887339)
they consider themselves the only adult in the room, even though mentally they are just a hair older than any of the other actors
Re:Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM I... by ryzvonusef on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @12:50PM (#35889975)
here is a 7 minutes video in english on the topic, if you woul like to watch : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTy5giEpodk
Re:Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM I... by sashank_1509 on Thursday May 11, 2023 @09:13AM (#35901543)
Feels more like a polemic against the Pakistan military. For example unlike how presented in the video there was majority public support for the first military coup of 1958 in Pakistan because that was a period of serious political turmoil. Pakistan went through 4 prime ministers in 2 years and the public was agitated by the unstable economy especially regarding water canal issues and it seemed like the military could come in and bring some stability.
Re:Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM I... by ryzvonusef on Thursday May 11, 2023 @11:00AM (#35903171)
It's the closest thing to an answer to OP's question I could find, that was in English.