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Re:What Is Permaculture? by debacle on Tuesday May 09, 2023 @02:42PM (#35878656)
A few people are making money from it, but they're content to make money. The majority of people doing homesteading are:

1. At-home farmers who are eating healthier, but paying for the privilege. 2. People who are quiet because they're actually making very good money doing what they're doing. 3. People who haven't quite grasped that permaculture and/or homesteading are still farming, and farming is still hard work despite how blog-friendly you make it. 4. People trying to sell their "next best thing" marketing to hopeful mommmy bloggers.

I am currently a #1 hoping to become a #2 eventually. Online, I predominantly follow #2s and they never try and sell me classes, PDFs, etc, because they're busy making money farming.

Re:What Is Permaculture? by hksh on Tuesday May 09, 2023 @02:54PM (#35878812)
Could you link to some of the #2s you follow?
Re:What Is Permaculture? by beembeem on Tuesday May 09, 2023 @03:42PM (#35879432)
Oh this is what you meant - making a living through permaculture. Can confirm that SelfSufficientMe strikes me as a great dude with engaging content.
Re:What Is Permaculture? by blisterpeanuts on Tuesday May 09, 2023 @03:58PM (#35879619)
Also, Justin Rhodes and Joel Salatin youtube channels. Joel focuses on poultry, and Justin also raises pigs and cows. Both are heavily into permaculture.

I only have a few backyard chickens, but I’m trying to apply their principles where I can. It’s scalable, luckily.

Re:What Is Permaculture? by ry4nolson on Tuesday May 09, 2023 @05:31PM (#35880640)
The Gardening Channel With James Prigioni is another great channel.

https://www.youtube.com/c/jamesprigioni

Re:What Is Permaculture? by CapstanRoller on Tuesday May 09, 2023 @04:40PM (#35880102)
Why is money the main goal? If you see everything through that lens, then of course permaculture seems incoherent.

If money is a primary concern, why grow food at all? Just strip-mine your land instead, or simply engage in real-estate speculation and landlordism.

Re:What Is Permaculture? by vintermann on Tuesday May 09, 2023 @05:01PM (#35880332)
If you buy actually valuable expensive input from the outside world for making food, you should sell actually valuable output to make it worth it. Otherwise it isn't sustainable.

Sure, making money on things that aren't actually valuable is all too easy, but that would defeat the point. "Economy", formal and informal, seems to be a big and acknowledged part of permaculture culture.

Re:What Is Permaculture? by gafferongames on Tuesday May 09, 2023 @05:55PM (#35880883)
The whole point of permaculture is to not require expensive inputs.
Re:What Is Permaculture? by CapstanRoller on Tuesday May 09, 2023 @11:29PM (#35883302)
If "permaculture" meant "hobby farm", then you'd be correct.

However, permaculture is centered around a radically different approach: maximally leveraging existing ecosystem features rather than trying to fight them, or trying to wipe the ecosystem clean and turn it into mere substrate for building something artificial.

A correctly implemented permaculture "farm" should require minimal or no artificial inputs at all, instead relying on a composition of self-sustaining closed loops (e.g. food waste goes into compost and a worm bin, where the compost is used to grow more vegetables while the worms are used to supplement chickens foraging in the garden and eating pests like slugs)

Re:What Is Permaculture? by vintermann on Thursday May 11, 2023 @01:36PM (#35905491)
Even if that, you need shovels. You need a lot of stuff that wears out, that you can't make yourself. You need to participate in an economy. Some of it can be with other permas, but much of it likely won't.

It's always been like that. Farmers from the stone age on have used tools manufactured a long way away.

Re:What Is Permaculture? by CapstanRoller on Thursday May 11, 2023 @01:58PM (#35905797)
No one said anything about avoiding participating in an economy or abstaining from tools.

You seem to be confusing permaculture with primitivism.

Re:What Is Permaculture? by m463 on Tuesday May 09, 2023 @07:07PM (#35881528)
I agree. Actually, I suspect optimizing for anything will probably backfire.

I wonder if there can be a sort of ecosystem effect on money that works like produce. If you overproduce something, it ends up going bad and rotting. Maybe you could have a currency where if you don't use it, it diminishes. That would make sure that money would be spread around, just like an abundant harvest would be shared widely before it goes bad.

Re:What Is Permaculture? by CapstanRoller on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @12:03AM (#35883515)
You've basically reinvented communism.

>That would make sure that money would be spread around, just like an abundant harvest would be shared widely before it goes bad.

Yes, that's how we get "from each according to their ability, to each according to their needs"

Re:What Is Permaculture? by m463 on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @03:09AM (#35884577)
I was wasn't trying to eliminate money. I was thinking more along the lines of incentivizing feeding the money back into the economy.

I though clinton said something along those lines? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_the_economy,_stupid

Re:What Is Permaculture? by flo123456 on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @02:40AM (#35884369)
> Maybe you could have a currency where if you don't use it, it diminishes.

Isn’t that what inflation is? Maybe at a lot slower scale, but the long-term effect is the same.

Re:What Is Permaculture? by CapstanRoller on Wednesday May 10, 2023 @05:32PM (#35893818)
It sounds more like a decaying/expiring CBDC

https://bfsi.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/policy/digita...