You don't need Scrum. You just need to do Kanban right (2022)

Re:You don't need Scrum. You just need to do Kanban right (2... by irjustin on Monday May 08, 2023 @02:44AM (#35858816)

nah it's all good. it's just the "estimation value" which is technically arbitrary, but a common practice is in a 2-week sprint, 1x eng 1x sprint is ~5 points.

By saying 8pts the team is effectively saying it's probably a 2 sprint job and individual tickets are not supposed to be 2 sprints long meaning there's complexity that either needs to be broken apart or on the rarer case, team agrees the ticket is fine as-is then it'll take 2 sprints.

Anything 13 or greater is saying this ticket is so big we can't even begin to accurately estimate it - PM take it away from us! It's fun to see 21 or 34 pts... it's all a joke at that point.

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Re:You don't need Scrum. You just need to do Kanban right (2... by mongol on Monday May 08, 2023 @03:52AM (#35859128)

Is that common? I thought it varied depending on the team, but usually that 1 pt is the shortest meaningful piece of work. Where I work now, 5 pt is not especially much. We have total story points delivered in a sprint around 120.

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Re:You don't need Scrum. You just need to do Kanban right (2... by irjustin on Monday May 08, 2023 @04:18AM (#35859258)

As mentioned, it's technically arbitrary, so you just need to get used to how your org does it. There's no right or wrong as long as your org agrees on the value of those points... sort of like bitcoin, ha ha (cries in BTC).

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Re:You don't need Scrum. You just need to do Kanban right (2... by hgsgm on Monday May 08, 2023 @08:35AM (#35860863)

You didn't say how long a sprint is nor how large your team is, which makes me suspect that you don't handle measurements well in general.

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Re:You don't need Scrum. You just need to do Kanban right (2... by kqr on Monday May 08, 2023 @04:25AM (#35859299)

Thanks. My teams have always estimated in hours (though at times these hours were called points) so I was a bit frightened to hear that an estimation of 13 hours would be considered bad! I guess if 13 means 26 person-days I get why people would be nervous – even I would suggest breaking it down into smaller pieces, if possible!

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Re:You don't need Scrum. You just need to do Kanban right (2... by Scarblac on Monday May 08, 2023 @05:47AM (#35859807)

The main point of points is that they are not supposed to be equivalent to x amount of time.

They're supposed to represent a measure of complexity.

How much time that then takes depends on who does the work, the order in which tickets are implemented, how much distraction there is, luck (do you encounter any unforeseen problems), and so on.

They're then used to see how many issues will fit in a sprint, which is a measure of time. So everybody ends up treating them as representing time anyway...

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Re:You don't need Scrum. You just need to do Kanban right (2... by re-thc on Monday May 08, 2023 @06:23AM (#35859996)

That’s the theory but it doesn’t help managers so they still convert it back to time somehow.

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Re:You don't need Scrum. You just need to do Kanban right (2... by hgsgm on Monday May 08, 2023 @08:38AM (#35860885)

Scrum was never for managers. If a manager is involved in predictions, it's not scrum. Scrum is about delivering the best you can each month, with client/management setting priorities and then appreciating what they get, instead of trying to steer the car from the boot.

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Re:You don't need Scrum. You just need to do Kanban right (2... by re-thc on Monday May 08, 2023 @11:26AM (#35862644)

Sure, I get what scrum is. "Scrum" in the real world isn't that though - at least 80% of the common case (check the other comments).

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