> Feminists were not disparaging motherhood or unpaid work like if it was above them to do it.
Were? When are we talking about? This sounds like Lasch, in the 90s or maybe 80s, comparing 3rd wave feminism to 2nd wave feminism. However, now it sounds like he's critiquing 4th wave feminism, which is significantly more debased. I think you are talking past him either way, but it helps to be specific. Ultimately, your claims aren't contradicting his in my view.
What do you think 4th wave feminism is?
Great question! I don't have a certain answer, but I will say this again: debased.
The poverty at the time was actual real world issue women faced. The honorable calling does not pay the bills and does not allow you to escape the abusive partner.
It is that sleight of hand where they pretend to be oh so caring about women while completely ignoring pretty large issues. And where they pretend to value housework and what not while consistently treating women living those values as stupider.
Re:The Language of Democracy
by cat_plus_plus on Sunday May 07, 2023 @09:46PM
(#35857251)
I will support feminism when feminists protest against male only military conscription in Ukraine. Until then it's just one of "we only care about our own kind of people" movement like white supremacy or black lives matter. If you believe in sending men literally to their death while staying safe yourself, you should be at least willing to do some house work in return. Personally I think nobody should be forced to fight a war and everyone should be able to volunteer, and countries that can't find enough volunteers do not deserve to exist. Pretty sure there will be more men fighting in practice, but if that's by choice, it's not an injustice.
Yes the real injustice is that women don't want to participate in the violence that has been perpetrated almost entirely by men since the dawn of time
Men perpetrate the violence. Women often talk them into it.
…source?
The Trojan war was Helen's fault bro
Re:The Language of Democracy
by cat_plus_plus on Monday May 08, 2023 @09:56AM
(#35861541)
So why should I be forced to participate if I didn't perpetuate any violence myself? Should immigrants from countries known for terrorism or drag cartels be banned because Americans want no part of these activities?
``` A feminist movement that respected the achievements of women in the past would not disparage housework, motherhood or unpaid civic and neighborly services. It would not make a paycheck the only symbol of accomplishment. ... It would insist that people need self-respecting honorable callings, not glamorous careers that carry high salaries but take them away from their families ```
This is very dishonest to me it seems to weaponize an existential seemingly anticapitalist critique ("The goal of life is not to accumulate money but to answer a calling) against feminism. Feminists were not disparaging motherhood or unpaid work like if it was above them to do it. They criticized the fact that it was considered their work and had indeed no opportunity for other callings
That's not even an interesting angle of attack against capitalism because it tells you capitalism is only about people trying to get richer. Sigh, I'll pass.
Addendum: This seems to fit "Romantic anticapitalism" as defined by Michael Löwy. He had some interesting takes about it IIRC.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Lasch