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Re:Renting Horsepower by ajross on Thursday May 04, 2023 @01:50PM (#35819422)
> RENT FUCKING SEEKING.

That's not rent seeking. Rent seeking is when an entity has control of something that can't be traded in a liquid/efficient way (this part is important!) and tries to leverage this uncompetetive situation into revenue that isn't subject to market forces.

Cars are pretty liquid. Subscription products are very liquid. If people don't want this they won't buy it. If they don't want cars with this subscription model they'll buy a Tesla[1] or VW. That's exactly the opposite of rent seeking.

That's not saying it's good (or bad) for consumers. But it's not rent seeking.

[1] Tesla also sells over-the-air performance upgrades, but it's a fixed price and goes with the vehicle after purchase. They do have subscription fees for data access features, and for FSD though.

Re:Renting Horsepower by rwc on Thursday May 04, 2023 @02:22PM (#35819916)
"Rent seeking" does not mean "seeking to charge rental fees" but that seems to be how it's being used by GP and others here.
Re:Renting Horsepower by r00fus on Thursday May 04, 2023 @02:17PM (#35819816)
> That's exactly the opposite of rent seeking.

Untrue. They aren't monopoly rents but they are rents. Can you get better performance from your Mercedes EV through another provider? No? It's rent.

Re:Renting Horsepower by ajross on Thursday May 04, 2023 @02:22PM (#35819914)
> Can you get better performance from your Mercedes EV through another provider? No?

No, but you can sell it and buy a Tesla. Having more features is just "selling a better product". By that standard any optional feature on a market-leading product is "rent-seeking", and that's silly. Is the App Store rent seeking? Is selling junk on Fortnite rent seeking?

No, that's just "selling products". Rent seeking is a specific form of market distortion, and the concept just doesn't apply to consumer products. It's about stuff like real estate control or regulatory capture. As always Wikipedia has a great page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent-seeking

Re:Renting Horsepower by sleepybrett on Thursday May 04, 2023 @02:32PM (#35820035)
Tesla does the same fucking thing.
Re:Renting Horsepower by r00fus on Thursday May 04, 2023 @02:38PM (#35820134)
One of the reasons I didn't buy a Tesla. Though to be clear with Tesla it's not a never-ending sub, it's a flat fee and transferrable.
Re:Renting Horsepower by owisd on Thursday May 04, 2023 @02:31PM (#35820030)
For optional features it’s rent seeking if they’re charging much higher margins for the optional extras than for the base product.
Re:Renting Horsepower by yamtaddle on Thursday May 04, 2023 @02:13PM (#35819762)
They're charging extra for something that would cost them nothing, deny them the use of nothing, require none of their resources, if you could use it without paying them. I can see an angle for calling that rent-seeking.
Re:Renting Horsepower by entrox on Thursday May 04, 2023 @02:19PM (#35819863)
Is charging for a feature unlock in a piece of software also rent-seeking?

The feature has already been developed, I have already downloaded the software to my device. It would cost the developer nothing, deny them the use of nothing, require none of their resources for me to use the feature and yet they charge for it.

How is that different?

Re:Renting Horsepower by yamtaddle on Thursday May 04, 2023 @02:45PM (#35820230)
This would make more sense as a comparison if adding two or more modes of operation hadn't taken more work than just having one.

I think the "it's rent-seeking" position would be weaker for toggling entire features on and off—the specific example of unlocking better acceleration was them adding a worse mode just so they could charge a subscription for the better one.

Re:Renting Horsepower by kittiepryde on Thursday May 04, 2023 @03:41PM (#35821050)
Like making a specfic mechanic in a video game worse so they can sell the fix later on.
Re:Renting Horsepower by Dave_Rosenthal on Thursday May 04, 2023 @05:34PM (#35822396)
Don't know why the parent comment is downvoted--it's totally right. "Rent seeking" is a term of art with that doesn't at all mean "trying to get people to rent something they could buy".