News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car ... by hn_throwaway_99 on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @06:43PM (#35795192)
I wanted to try to understand more context behind the "'Why would anyone have one [an Android phone]?' Mayor Adams responded." quote. Here is the relevant video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vuw72THyXsQ&t=949s

So, I get that he's making a joke, but given that everyone just laughs and there is no follow up, it's clear to me it's one of those "The reason this joke is funny is because I actually think it's true" jokes.

I've been an Android user for about a decade now, but I think I'm finally going to have to throw in the towel. Between iMessage (especially iMessage) and things like this, in the US having an Android essentially marks you as a second class citizen. And to be clear, I'm not saying this from an "Androids are uncool" or some silly "green bubbles" perspective, I'm saying from the perspective that owning an Android actually makes it more difficult to interact with friends and, in this case, with government services.

No, I'm not happy about it, and I f'ing hate how Apple has used these walled garden techniques to force people onto their platform. But from a simple utilitarian perspective, owning an Android puts you at a distinct disadvantage in the US.

Re:NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car ... by hn_throwawa_100 on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @07:25PM (#35795600)
As a US Android user, I don't feel very disadvantaged. I have an iPad, an M1 Mac, and a couple Airtags. If I lose something I probably won't be able to locate it until I get back home. I haven't had much trouble with getting group messages on android but maybe my use-case isn't representative.

I think the Android perks still outweigh the cost. Not that any of this isn't possible on iPhone but it's a smoother Android experience: Google Fi for phone plans when traveling internationally, some open-source apps aren't available in Apple's app store, and some apps in both stores are more expensive for iPhone (e.g. Anki). I feel like iCloud has some bad incentives as well. I think that's why live photos is a pain to turn off (I also like Google Photos).

Re:NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car ... by hn_throwaway_99 on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @07:31PM (#35795676)
By far the biggest barrier is group chats with others who are on iphone. Not only is the experience pretty broken for you, it essentially ends up breaking the experience for everyone else. This AirTags example just highlights that to a large portion of the US populace, Android is essentially a joke.
Re:NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car ... by Aeolun on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @07:58PM (#35795938)
But you can use any of a wide variety of actually useful messenger applications with no platform limitations…

Line, Telegram, Signal, Whatsapp, Messenger.

Why do these people insist on iMessage?

Re:NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car ... by hn_throwaway_99 on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @08:20PM (#35796112)
Because that's what they're used to and that what works with all of their friends.

To be clear, I completely agree, and I wish they did use a cross-platform messenger. But the reality is that, in the US, the vast majority of iPhone users use iMessage primarily.

Re:NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car ... by shigawire on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @08:16PM (#35796078)
Because it is the default.
Re:NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car ... by Aeolun on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @08:48PM (#35796315)
Yeah, but you’d think they could be bothered to switch so that all their friends can participate equally.

Especially considering the burdensome cost of absolutely free.

Re:NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car ... by woodruffw on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @09:12PM (#35796470)
Half of the engineers I (want to) talk to refuse to switch from IRC, and the other half refuse to use it. In the end, I use both, and so do lots of other people.

Should we expect ordinary, non-technical users to behave substantially different? It's not clear to me that we should; most people find the status quo "good enough," and the activation energy for switching is higher than the minor inconvenience of some of your social circle having a slightly worse user experience.

Re:NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car ... by howinteresting on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @09:10PM (#35796444)
Americans are lazy status-seeking morons is why.
Re:NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car ... by martinjacobd on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @08:01PM (#35795957)
How is the experience broken for anybody? I've been on group chats with my wife and parents (all iPhoners) for years and it's totally fine. I recently got a Pixel and now even the stupid emotes display properly (though it was easy to know what they meant before). I had an iphone forever ago (when my parents were paying for it), and I don't recall the experience of group chats being notably better or worse.

It's more annoying that I have three apps (signal, groupme, and discord) which each have a single friend or friend group that use them but that isn't an android/iphone problem.

Re:NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car ... by hn_throwaway_99 on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @08:21PM (#35796118)
Have you never sent a video?
Re:NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car ... by blep_ on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @09:37PM (#35796640)
People have different usage patterns. I don't think I've ever sent or received a video.
Re:NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car ... by somsak2 on Wednesday May 03, 2023 @10:43AM (#35803001)
In mixed group chats with iPhone and Android, it is not that rare of an occurrence to have issues with texts not going through / being delayed. I also can't emote without a wall of text showing up, or edit messages after sending.

None of those are issues if everyone is blue.

Re:NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car ... by howinteresting on Thursday May 04, 2023 @01:10PM (#35818780)
SMS and MMS group chats are pretty unreliable compared to basically every modern platform.
Re:NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car ... by prepend on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @09:05PM (#35796412)
The worst is that group chats aren’t reliable in that some messages won’t go to all participants.

But if everyone is iMessage everything goes through. I’m sure it’s an iPhone bug, but it means that mentally I can count on iMessage chats to go through and mixed chats I’m frequently wondering and having to check with each member, “did you get that.” So it means that mixed chats are extra chatty with people confirming with “oks.”

It’s just a crappier experience with green chats and everything goes smoothly so try blue chats.

I wouldn’t cut out friends because of it, but I have a small iota of sadness when I start a chat and it turns green because of someone.

For kids it’s kind of brutal with friends literally not talking to people because they aren’t using emojis.

It’s not android’s fault, but it’s an easy pain to spare my child by buying an iPhone. Not to mention my iPhones last years longer than my android phones and one kid is even using an ancient iPhone 6 to chat with friends.

Re:NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car ... by howinteresting on Thursday May 04, 2023 @01:07PM (#35818719)
I'm not going to make apologies for SMS and MMS group chats, but in my close and extended circles (US, SF bay area) every single person has either Signal or WhatsApp. These aren't all tech people either, just people who are conscientious about privacy.
Re:NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car ... by jasonfarnon on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @07:24PM (#35795587)
"owning an Android actually makes it more difficult to interact with friends"

I'd get new friends before switching to an apple product. Actually if my friends switched to apple products, I might get new friends.

Re:NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car ... by hn_throwaway_99 on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @07:28PM (#35795638)
Your attitude exactly highlights why I'm considering switching. I'm pissed at Apple, but it's not like I have any particularly affinity to Google. In the end, life is short. So I can stomp my feet and say "this sucks" and live alone in my basement (yes, I'm exaggerating), or, if I go on vacation with a group of friends and I want to share in their experiences, photos, etc., then I can get an iPhone.
Re:NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car ... by jasonfarnon on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @07:35PM (#35795709)
I guess I'm misunderstanding how Apple prevents you from sharing in their experiences. Did Apple create a walled garden around experiences, which I wouldn't put past them? This is an honest question. I heard something in a stand-up bit, from which I gathered sms from non-Apple users are flagged a certain way in Apple users' conversations. Is there something else?
Re:NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car ... by hn_throwaway_99 on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @07:53PM (#35795898)
In the US, the vast, vast majority of iPhone users use iMessage for chatting. When you are in a group chat on iMessage, and you are the only Android user:

1. Video sharing is essentially unusable. Forget "potato quality", basically the videos are essentially unviewable. And this goes not just to videos that are sent to you, it's also videos you send to the group. Sharing videos in a group chat is not an uncommon activity when you're on vacation, for example.

2. In iMessage, using emoji responses is a big part of the social interaction in group chats, e.g. someone posts a photo and other people post responses. You basically can't post emoji reactions in iMessage group chats if you're on Android.

3. Messages you send randomly get dropped. "Hey, hn_throwaway_99, can you send us that group picture you took?". Me: "Sure thing". An hour later: "Why didn't you send the photo like we asked?". Me: "I did, but apparently half the group never got it."

Then, basically, everyone gets annoyed if you're the "Android man out", because everything works perfectly if everyone is on an iPhone. And, in the US, if you belong to certain social groups in particular socioeconomic classes, you will be the odd one out if you don't have an iPhone.

Re:NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car ... by eertami on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @08:45PM (#35796290)
I think the lack of success of iMessage in the rest of the world is the only reason Apple has been able to maintain iMessage as a closed one platform chat protocol.

Nobody uses iMessage or SMS in the EU these days, but if usage was like in the US then I suspect that Apple would have already been forced long ago to open up or release clients for other platforms. The US is very unlikely to make demands, but the EU doesn't mess around with this kind of thing.

Of course, knowing Apple, they might also respond to such a scenario by removing iMessage on EU phones and keeping it the same in the US.

It sucks, but I understand why someone might be forced to swap to a specific product or device for social reasons. Shame though.

Re:NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car ... by seanw444 on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @07:01PM (#35795344)
I have zero issues with running an Android, and I honestly see iPhones as being disadvantaged, personally. There's not a single thing I can't do on an Android that I could on an iPhone.
Re:NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car ... by hn_throwaway_99 on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @07:25PM (#35795597)
Then you have never tried to join a group chat where the other members of the group all have iPhones and use iMessage.
Re:NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car ... by chaosbutters314 on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @07:49PM (#35795852)
all the group chats im in use signal
Re:NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car ... by hot_gril on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @10:09PM (#35796878)
Then you're probably missing out on some group chats others are in.
Re:NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car ... by j-bos on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @10:26PM (#35796987)
Isn't this always the case in life? There are people having fun without you.
Re:NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car ... by hot_gril on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @10:41PM (#35797105)
Yeah, but it's because I don't know them, not because I'll only use a particular chat app.
Re:NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car ... by kingrazor on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @10:59PM (#35797259)
I actively avoid group chats in general, but most everyone I know uses SMS for group chats.
Re:NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car ... by Jcowell on Wednesday May 03, 2023 @09:53AM (#35802415)
I can tell you right now, if they’re iphone users they probably hate it. Go on. Ask them.
Re:NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car ... by seanw444 on Wednesday May 03, 2023 @11:27AM (#35803553)
No, the people I care to talk to all use Telegram, or have been willing to join my XMPP instance.
Re:NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car ... by Gigachad on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @09:58PM (#35796797)
What do you want him to tell you? AirTags do not work with Android. Is that much better than cracking a joke? He is giving some general advice that is useful to most people. Should he refrain from giving some helpful advice unless it works universally for everyone?
Re:NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car ... by hot_gril on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @10:10PM (#35796891)
FWIW, I use an iPhone and have never felt like using Android would exclude me from anything socially. Nothing from the govt requires an iPhone, and plenty of my friends use Android. The NYC mayor was just doing a PSA.

What would exclude me is refusing to go on FB Messenger, Whatsapp, Instagram, etc. And it'd seem inconsistent to use those while rejecting the iPhone on principle.

Re:NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car ... by kingrazor on Tuesday May 02, 2023 @10:58PM (#35797253)
I've genuinely never gotten any flack about the whole imessage vs sms thing, but I've also thrown in the towel for one particular reason: OS updates. Most Android manufacturers only give you 2 major versions, maybe 3 in the best case. With Samsung being the only one I know of giving you 4. iPhone supports major OS version updates for a lot longer than most any android phone.
Re:NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car ... by kingrazor on Wednesday May 03, 2023 @11:12AM (#35803349)
I see this got downvoted but no one offered any counter argument?
Re:NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car ... by gnopgnip on Wednesday May 03, 2023 @01:57AM (#35798539)
Apple has an airtag locating app for android, called tracker detect.
Re:NYPD urges citizens to buy AirTags to fight surge in car ... by jollyllama on Wednesday May 03, 2023 @11:56AM (#35803933)
Why is it socially acceptable for those with cheap phones to be laughed at but not for those with cheap cars (the easily stolen Hyundais and Kias) to be laughed at?