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Re:Obama (was) to require 100 hours of community service a y... by pg on Friday November 07, 2008 @08:03PM (#357293)
Require? What are they going to do to people who don't do it?

What paperwork are you going to have to fill out to get your open source project certified as community service, so you don't have to spend the time picking up trash along the road instead?

Re:Obama (was) to require 100 hours of community service a y... by pg on Friday November 07, 2008 @08:43PM (#357346)
FYI, here's what http://change.gov/americaserves/ said 35 minutes ago:

"The Obama Administration will call on Americans to serve in order to meet the nation’s challenges. President-Elect Obama will expand national service programs like AmeriCorps and Peace Corps and will create a new Classroom Corps to help teachers in underserved schools, as well as a new Health Corps, Clean Energy Corps, and Veterans Corps. Obama will call on citizens of all ages to serve America, by developing a plan to require 50 hours of community service in middle school and high school and 100 hours of community service in college every year."

(There was nothing about tax credits.)

Re:Obama (was) to require 100 hours of community service a y... by tdavis on Friday November 07, 2008 @08:23PM (#357312)
"Obama and Biden will establish a new American Opportunity Tax Credit that is worth $4,000 a year in exchange for 100 hours of public service a year."

Apparently, if you refuse, you don't get a tax break.

Re:Obama (was) to require 100 hours of community service a y... by pg on Friday November 07, 2008 @08:33PM (#357333)
They're changing this page as we're commenting on it. The stuff about tax credits wasn't there the last time I looked. They've also changed the wording about "requiring" certain numbers of hours.

They seem to be making this stuff up on the fly...

Re:Obama (was) to require 100 hours of community service a y... by tesseract on Friday November 07, 2008 @08:41PM (#357342)
If "making this stuff up on the fly" means "revising the policy proposals based on complaints from the public solicited via the Internet", then: bravo!
Re:Obama (was) to require 100 hours of community service a y... by ksvs on Friday November 07, 2008 @08:49PM (#357355)
Yeah, but it would be better if their first drafts showed a little more thought.
Re:Obama (was) to require 100 hours of community service a y... by tdavis on Saturday November 08, 2008 @09:03AM (#357559)
Iteration can work for policy, too. Regardless, I think the take-away here is that people shouldn't write articles like this based off of vague intentions. What someone wants to do, what they think is a good idea now and what actually happens can all be very different things.
Re:Obama (was) to require 100 hours of community service a y... by brlewis on Friday November 07, 2008 @08:42PM (#357345)
I'd sure like to see a statement about who's writing this stuff and how final it is. Still, it's a lot better than secreting the process away behind locked doors, the way our current energy policy was made.
Re:Obama (was) to require 100 hours of community service a y... by tptacek on Friday November 07, 2008 @10:16PM (#357420)
Promotional material on websites isn't policy. I'm sure the actual proposed legislation will give you plenty of ammunition to snipe with.
Re:Obama (was) to require 100 hours of community service a y... by rms on Friday November 07, 2008 @08:58PM (#357370)
The tax credit has definitely been mentioned at barackobama.com for a while.
Re:Obama (was) to require 100 hours of community service a y... by nazgulnarsil on Friday November 07, 2008 @08:41PM (#357343)
that's how progressives operate. their ideology doesn't hold up to close scrutiny so they get very good at dodging and weaving.
Re:Obama (was) to require 100 hours of community service a y... by nazgulnarsil on Friday November 07, 2008 @09:52PM (#357398)
yes! feel the hatred flow through you! strike this comment down and complete your training!
Re:Obama (was) to require 100 hours of community service a y... by rms on Friday November 07, 2008 @10:26PM (#357425)
you know perfectly well why you are being downmodded
Re:Obama (was) to require 100 hours of community service a y... by nazgulnarsil on Friday November 07, 2008 @11:22PM (#357446)
I would think something is wrong with the system if all my comments were up voted. most other places my pro-capitalism anti-progressive votes get down voted a lot more than they do here.
Re:Obama (was) to require 100 hours of community service a y... by hugh on Saturday November 08, 2008 @09:57AM (#357580)
And if your comments were better thought out then they might even get upmodded. Generalizations of the form "Ohhh yeah, progressives always do X" aren't useful.
Re:Obama (was) to require 100 hours of community service a y... by nazgulnarsil on Saturday November 08, 2008 @11:22AM (#357615)
generalizations are extremely useful and everyone uses them all the time. people just get a warm fuzzy feeling out of denying the few they are conscious of.
Re:Obama (was) to require 100 hours of community service a y... by rms on Friday November 07, 2008 @08:30PM (#357325)
I think it's pretty damn reasonable. An incredibly good deal, even.
Re:Obama (was) to require 100 hours of community service a y... by hugh on Friday November 07, 2008 @08:44PM (#357349)
A good deal for whom?
Re:Obama (was) to require 100 hours of community service a y... by rms on Friday November 07, 2008 @08:57PM (#357369)
College students that make less than $40/hour after taxes yet pay exactly $4000 in taxes.
Re:Obama (was) to require 100 hours of community service a y... by Xichekolas on Saturday November 08, 2008 @01:03AM (#357502)
The credit is fully refundable, so it amounts to getting paid $40/hr for a make-work project.

I wonder if there are going to be limitations on that... I could definitely be a student for a few more years if it meant I got paid $40/hr to do what I'd normally volunteer to do anyway.

Re:Obama (was) to require 100 hours of community service a y... by rms on Saturday November 08, 2008 @06:24PM (#357911)
Fully refundable, meaning you get a check back from the government if you aren't paying enough taxes? Awesome, I can't wait for the handouts to begin.
Re:Obama (was) to require 100 hours of community service a y... by Xichekolas on Saturday November 08, 2008 @06:34PM (#357919)
Yep. It's a giant $40/hr work-study program. Considering my university only paid work-study kids about $6/hr, this will obviously be very popular.
Re:Obama (was) to require 100 hours of community service a y... by burnout1540 on Friday November 07, 2008 @08:15PM (#357305)
I imagine that public schools would be forced to add a community service requirement for graduating and that's about it.

Oh no! The horror! What a commie!

NOTE: Sarcasm not directed at previous comment.

Re:Obama (was) to require 100 hours of community service a y... by pg on Friday November 07, 2008 @08:26PM (#357321)
It is actually pretty horrible, as it stands.

For the kind of students who party their way through college, it would merely be a big waste of time. (Yes, waste. Forced community service always ends up going into lame make-work projects.) But for more earnest college students it would be a disaster. For the kids working their way through college, it would be a crushing burden to lose 2 1/2 weeks of fulltime work every year to government mandated projects. And for students who already spend their time on genuinely public minded projects, like open source, it would mean either (a) filling out a lot of paperwork to get the project certified, or (b) being yanked away from it for 100 hours a year, which is a large fraction of the time a college student can afford to spare for side projects.

Re:Obama (was) to require 100 hours of community service a y... by tesseract on Friday November 07, 2008 @08:34PM (#357334)
If (as other parts of the website seem to suggest) the policy is actually that you $4k tax credit if you choose to do the service, this isn't such a huge problem. If you have a job that pays more than $40/hr, don't quit it to do the service. If you don't have such a job, then figure out what your options for service are and decide whether $40/hr is sufficient motivation to get you to do them.
Re:Obama (was) to require 100 hours of community service a y... by pg on Friday November 07, 2008 @08:37PM (#357337)
The stuff about the tax credit wasn't there till a couple minutes ago. That changes everything, of course. Then it becomes just one of those make-work projects like e.g. Boston organizes during the summer to keep unemployable teenagers busy till school starts again.
Re:Obama (was) to require 100 hours of community service a y... by tesseract on Friday November 07, 2008 @08:44PM (#357348)
Tax credit info has been on a different page (http://change.gov/agenda/education/) for longer than that. It contradicted the info on the linked page and that contradiction was apparently resolved a few minutes ago.
Re:Obama (was) to require 100 hours of community service a y... by tptacek on Friday November 07, 2008 @10:23PM (#357422)
Reactions:

* 100 hours! Shocking! Tell it to the Israelis who, last I checked, didn't seem to have much of a problem building up a technology industry.

* The nerd exceptionalism is wearing a bit thin. Open source is the best you can come up with? How about: (a) teaching, (b) improving technological infrastructure (testing and improving muni and state web applications, helping administer muni wifi), (c) collecting, refurbing, and recycling computing equipment?

* Or for that matter: a large fraction of Obama's margin of victory came from mobilization of youth and first-time voters, and his overperformance of polls in Indiana are also attributable to the field operation: people wandering around towns in Indiana knocking on doors. Can't get more low-tech make-work than that. But that effort was disproportionately staffed with clueful, Internet-savvy college students. Lots of valuable work isn't sexy, but still benefits from smart people figuring out where when and how to do it right.