For things that you do regularly the button should be optimized to not be in the middle of a cluster. Ideally it'll be somewhere you can see easily (like on the steering wheel), and most importantly of all it isn't dependent on context. In my car I can easily turn on the aircon, or change the music volume, or answer the phone without looking away from the road because I know where the button is and one press always does that thing. On a touchscreen you always need to give it attention because the screen area changes what it does depending on what you've pressed before pressing that area. That is a huge disadvantage.

Your point about pressing a button not doing what it's supposed to is right, but I have to admit I can't remember the last time that happened in any car I've owned. Buttons not working isn't a common issue as far as I know.

I found that I was using the wheel warmer button way more than I through I would. It's located right in middle of a cluster on the central console, in an awkward place to look at (right next to my hips in a blind spot).

I devised a nice and cheap fix for this UI problem that wouldn't be applicable on a touch screen: I put a googly eye sticker on it.

Better tactile feedback, no loss of function, and more whimsy in my otherwise boring car.

It illustrates the point that accessibility isn't only for disabled people. It benefits everyone, and if you're lucky to live long enough, you'll need it even more every day.

I suppose we're all just pre-dead as well?

What a depressing way to look at life.

You may want to seek out help from a counselor.

Not everyone is predisabled: many unfortunate people won't live long enough to suffer the consequences of old age. But I'd rather not die before I get old, myself. I certainly hope I'm predisabled instead of short lived, myself.

It sounds like you're the one who needs a counselor if you're so depressed and having such a hard time facing the fact that you're getting older every second, until you die.

If you're designing user interfaces, you might want to seek out help for an accessibility specialist.

I suggest we call the people on the other side of this divide "Daltreys" and prohibit them from designing any UIs.

The touchscreen latency issue discussed in parent posts is just that...

With the entertainment system, it's a tree of menus on a touchscreen to find what I need to do and then the screen has several buttons neatly arranged which I need to look at (not just feel for) to find what I need. When I tap on something, it's not immediately clear to me without looking and verifying whether the function has been executed or not.

It's true of some buttons, but there are lots that you don't, mostly on the dipsticks: indicators, wipers, lights and the like.

Others are well delineated and just need a quick glance, but lining up your finger and multiple presses on a touchscreen is not that at all.

Do you look down at the shifter every time you use it? It's the same thing really.

Huh? They cannot be. You cannot get the same level of tactile feedback from a touchscreen as from a properly designed knob.

> For me, when things get dangerous, its when pressing the button (physical or touch) doesn't do what its suppose to do.

I have experienced that regularly in cars. When you have clear, unambiguous feedback that you gave the input exactly how you're supposed to, it's a minor annoyance; you instantly know that the UI failed to pick up on your input. Redo and if failure is consistent, have it repaired.

When you have to start debugging whether it's your input method or the UI having an off day, while driving, that's when things get dangerous to me.

That's true but also I feel like they could make much more tactile touch screen if they actually spent the money. For example, you could use a pressure sensitive touch screen so that mere touch doesn't activate buttons, and you could put a haptic feedback mechanism in it like that of Apple that actually informs you when you press something. The haptic feedback could even subtly tell you whether you are touching a button before you click it.

The reason they don't do that is that touchscreens are a cost cutting measure and making them as expensive as buttons would cut into margins.

You don't realize just how MUCH worse doing it on a touchscreen is.

A touchscreen button is in a specific region of space, yet that region jumps and jostles around because the car and the touchscreen are moving and your arm is moving (usually in a different direction).

If you bump or drag your knuckles on the touchscreen, you accidentally engage some other control.

It's not as bad if the control is at the edge, is a large enough target and the touchscreen has a raised bezel around it to rest your knuckles on, but you still have to use your eyes to locate the button.

It's really annoying with tesla - the targets have gotten smaller over time, they've adopted apple's ios 7 mess of buttons that don't look like buttons, and now the buttons move around due to context, or passenger in seat, or other nonsense. Some buttons have state, but it times out. Some buttons can be moved. Some buttons change depending on what you used last. lots of map stuff auto-hides. Buttons along the edge are good, but they made them smaller and left lots of unused space. many buttons are in the middle with no good reason. ugh.

My suspicion? I suspect the model S/X touchscreen was designed by people who don't drive a model S/X and test it at their desk with a crappy dell monitor and a mouse.

Even if that’s the case, you can lightly drag your finger across a row of buttons, and remember that the button is the third one in without asking your eyes off the road.

Are there no buttons on your car's steering wheel? Really, not even a horn? These can be pressed without even taking your hand off the wheel.

And what about indicators, gear shifter, parking brake? Do you "briefly have to look at the console" to find those?

<laughs in old Citroën>

The only electronic thing on the whole dashboard is the clock, and it's never worked.

In a crowded field of craziness I'd personally have to place the Citroën Visa high up as bonkersiest of the bonkers.

Happy to hear other nominations though.

I liked the control clusters it had instead of stalks.

If I owned one of those I'd feel obliged to make myself a mix tape with Jean-Michel Jarre, Cerrone and Desireless.

I can just see me rocking up at the pub with Voyage Voyage drifting out the sun roof.

I keep my hands at about 2:30 and 10:30, just up against the the airbag cross-member. With my right hand I reach out and a tad down but not much and a bit forward and land on the temp knob (also a toggle push button for temp auto mode) and I can do this every time with perfect muscle memory, to the right of that are six buttons, the closest is the power toggle button, then there's the recirculate/outside switch button, then a pair of side by side buttons for fan up and down then vent modes and against the right edge is the ac toggle button.

It's a breeze to slide my finger across those buttons from closest to farthesst and know exactly where I am. Depending on which I'm after I can come in from the left or right side. Never need to look as the feedback for all of these is an environmental change I can sense by air movement or temperature or whatever, and so I generally know if I got something right or wrong without looking. On a rare occasion I'll be in a rush to flip from outside air to recirculate and will hit the fan down button but that's immediately recognizable and I correct and then easily reach the recirculate button.

Below that space under a lip in the dash face, is, first in line to the right of the temp knob, my 3 stage heated seat button, then the windshield defroster, then the big giant slightly elevated hazard button in the middle and the rear defroster to the right of that. Like with the controls above, I start at the temp dial for orientation and then can usually leap right to the button I want since that distinctive center hazard button provides wayfinding at the mid point.

Reaching down to the console I have two dials, a big one and a small one and I can easily land on the right one directly from the steering wheel in one jump. Then, still without looking, I can rest my hand on and move the dial leisurely, under no pressure for having my arm extended into space holding a specific pose, muscles poised to move quickly as soon as my gaze can align with my finger tips and the touch screen. Instead, my fingers fiddle the knob and usually get what I want on their own, or with only peripheral vision on the screen, but certainly those fingers can just sit there indefinitely until my eyes are safely free to make a glance that's not down at the knob, but due east, horizontally and to the right, atop the dashboard where a low and wide horizontal screen can be seen without losing peripheral vision directly in front of the vehicle and even some out to the left.

The two dials are also joysticks and push buttons. Navigating the stock software and Android Auto are about equally easy and only require peripheral vision on the high-mounted screen most of the time, or the occasional short glances where I can have my eyes on it and the road in front of me considerably more at the same time than if the screen were extending down toward or even to the console.

I've been through models of this same car that were screenless, fully touchscreen, hybrid, and now they've completely dropped the touchscreen and settled on dials and buttons far away from the screen. This is the way.

When you touch a touchscreen, you can't feel the buttons, and it always triggers whatever button you touched.

If you have so much trouble with physical buttons, then you'll have even more trouble with touch screens.

Maybe you should stay off the road.

Touch screens have no such luxury - a graze is a press, the same as an actual press, and because it's a smooth surface, so even if you know the button you want is the second from the bottom, you can't find the bottom button and then go up one.

Ultimately the problem with the touch screen interface is that it has to be looked at, in order for the user to know what mode it's in. Is it in climate control? Is it in radio mode? Is it in Carplay navigation mode or deep in settings? Who knows! Let's find out by not looking at the road where the cars and people are.

As a pedestrian, this does not fill me with joy.

Assuming you possess this basic competence, I find myself wondering how you managed to purchase a vehicle with such absurd ergonomics.

You have a strange, poorly designed vehicle

This "big dashboard full of buttons." Please provide a picture. Is this a custom design?

"For me, when things get dangerous, its [sic] when pressing the button (physical or touch) doesn't do what its [sic] suppose [sic] to do."

What actions are you referring to? Changing the audio volume? The interior fan speed?

You may want to consider researching your vehicle purchases more rigorously.

This entire thread has me wondering the same thing. I've owned many cars and drive far more than average. What are y'all adjusting so much that's causing issues here?

If we exclude infotainment, which even the best have lousy driving ergonomics, you need to be able to turn wipers on/off (most are automatic now), turn the HVAC up or down (many you can just leave at a single temperature in more modern systems) and turn your headlights on/off, high/low (these have been automatic in the last few cars I've owned). Most other things should be adjusted before you start driving.

What are you having to adjust, outside your music, that's so difficult?

This may not be needed at the start of the drive if people's breath gradually steams up the windows or the weather changes. I have noticed that passengers from warmer climates probably don't have the same problems as they didn't understand this and were complaining at me to turn the fan off.

Though I always buy cars with physical buttons that are in ergonomic places and wouldn't buy something with a touch screen. I am also not sure how a touch screen would work with the thin gloves that I wear in winter when driving to work in the early morning.

Hazard button is pretty hard to miss in every vehicle I have entered

Do you find those difficult in your vehicle's layout?

HVAC--it does not compensate for ambient sunlight. What I want while driving in the sun is very different than what I want driving at night.

I do not have automatic wipers or lights. I have driven cars with automatic lights and I found them wanting.

Volume.

- Climate Control: -- A/C On -- Circulate / Outside Air -- Temperature Up -- Temperature Down -- Fan Speed Up -- Fan Speed Down -- Dual Mode -- Dual Mode Controls ( 4 buttons - Repeat the temp/fan buttons for passenger side) -- Front Defrost -- Rear Defrost

- Lights: -- Headlight mode -- Light dimmer -- Brights on/off -- Foglights on/off -- Flashers on/off

- Driving -- Gear Shift -- Turn Signal -- Cruise Control --- On/Off --- Set/+ --- Resume/- -- ESC (Electronic Stability Control) on/off -- Tripometer / info - check mileage to empty / range / etc

- Wipers -- wiper speed -- spray -- rear wipers --- spray

- Entertainment -- On/Off -- Volume Up -- Volume Down -- Mode (Switch between radio/android auto/sirius/etc) -- Next / Radio Tuner Up -- Previous / Radio Tuner Down -- Radio Presets (6 buttons) -- Play/Pause

- Calling / Voice -- Initiate Voice Command -- Answer call -- Hang up / Decline call

- Mirrors -- side mirror switch left/right -- side mirror adjust

- Windows -- front driver window up/down -- front passenger window up/down -- rear driver window up/down -- rear passenger window up/down -- window lock

- Locks -- lock/unlock

There are a few buttons I would need to look at but they are not something I would usually need while driving.

My chevy has fixed buttons/knobs, but the only one I don't have to look for is the volume knob. There are too many climate buttons that I use maybe once every two weeks for me to gain any muscle memory from pressing them.

A simple demonstration of this back from the 80s: My mother was blind. Along come microwave ovens with their flat control surfaces with push buttons behind. She had no way to find the buttons without inadvertently triggering wrong buttons. Labeling them would have been fine if she was alone but a problem with sighted people in the house. She solved it with a crude jig to let her locate buttons without applying pressure, but that was a two-handed operation that required concentration and still wouldn't work on a true touch screen.