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Re:Google contractors vote to unionize in historic landslide... by sheepscreek on Wednesday April 26, 2023 @09:23PM (#35722104)
> I have also spoken to people not in a union, who didn’t want a union, who were shocked to find out their bonus was Applebees gift cards and who indicated they should be compensated more for their hard labor.

> Humans are tricky.

This made me chuckle! Reminds me of the frog in boiling water adage:

If you put a frog in cold water and gradually raise the temperature, it will be imperceptible to the frog. They’d gladly boil to death. However, if you turn up the heat quickly - they’ll jump out.

A long winded way of saying - with time, we become comfortable in the status quo and expect things to stay a certain way. Any gradual shift is imperceptible to us, until many changes accumulate and reach a tipping point. And that is when we become disillusioned.

Re:Google contractors vote to unionize in historic landslide... by cogman10 on Wednesday April 26, 2023 @09:41PM (#35722226)
There's been a steady anti-union drum beat both from corporate media and the work place. Unions are almost always portrayed as expensive, worthless, and corrupt. Yet our current labor rights are almost entirely from unions setting strong standards and employers/politicians falling in line.

Propaganda works, if it didn't, Walmart and amazon wouldn't be spending so much money on anti-union propaganda. Nothing terrifies them more than the thought of multiple stores, warehouses, or development centers unionizing.

Re:Google contractors vote to unionize in historic landslide... by dehrmann on Wednesday April 26, 2023 @10:18PM (#35722543)
> Yet our current labor rights are almost entirely from unions setting strong standards and employers/politicians falling in line.

But the big wins were almost a century ago.

Re:Google contractors vote to unionize in historic landslide... by runarberg on Wednesday April 26, 2023 @11:00PM (#35722817)
This may be true in the USA where union membership is in an all time low, however in the rest of the world unions are still landing deals which guarantees more labor rights, this includes longer parental leaves, more sick time, longer vacations, more benefits for part time workers, more enforcement against violations, more education and guarantees for at-risk groups (such as foreign workers), equal pay certificates, 36 hour work weeks, 32 hour work weeks, anti-harassment guarantees, etc. etc.
Re:Google contractors vote to unionize in historic landslide... by lostcolony on Thursday April 27, 2023 @12:12AM (#35723215)
It also misses (well, leaves out; not sure the intent of the comment) the fact that unions have been gutted heavily in the US compared to where they were a century ago. When the US was an industrial, workers were treated poorly, unions began to form, fought for worker protections. As the US has transitioned into a knowledge/service economy, creating industries that didn't historically have unions, and industrials have been on the decline, unions have also declined. And where the US was once at the forefront of worker protections, we are sadly more like a third world country than a first world at this point.
Re:Google contractors vote to unionize in historic landslide... by dehrmann on Thursday April 27, 2023 @12:43AM (#35723429)
> unions have been gutted heavily in the US compared to where they were a century ago.

The red line isn't normalized by workforce size, but it suggests the big gains (five-day work week, 8-hour workday) were before unions really became powerful. Unionization was only a 15-year trend, then it stalled-out.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3e/United_S...

Re:Google contractors vote to unionize in historic landslide... by runarberg on Thursday April 27, 2023 @10:33AM (#35728739)
This is a really unfair interpretation of this graph. Unions had a big impact on these rights, but unions back then were nothing like the Unions today.

In the 19th century, Labor unions functioned more like activist group then unions in the modern sense. There were quite a few of them, they often included members across businesses and even industries (of these IWW still exists and still functions like this). There were no protections for collective bargaining so there was no need for unions to mass enroll whole businesses, what was important was organizing for every event, and build a solidarity across workers, rather then unionizing whole workplaces. The union’s job was to organize direct action and build up solidarity around them. A successful strike had union members and non-members alike striking in solidarity. A very successful strike crossed many and diverse workplaces. As you can imagine these often turned violent when scabs refused to participate (as they were allowed to), or when unions with conflicting ideologies were competing for members and propaganda.

This changed in the new deal era, particular when the Wagner Act (National Labor Relations Act; NLRA) was enacted in 1935. And you can see the uptake in union memberships on your graph. This act legalized collective action and protected workers in labor unions. This formed the basis unions as we know them today. From then on it became more important to organize each workplace, rather than each direct action, and the protections would only apply for members, not participants. So memberships suddenly became more important than participation.

Comparing memberships between these two eras is effectively comparing apples to oranges. While today membership count is an indicator of effectiveness, this was far from truth prior to the New Deal.

Re:Google contractors vote to unionize in historic landslide... by heavyset_go on Thursday April 27, 2023 @12:20AM (#35723259)
Right, union workers were shot at and bombed fighting for the rights that we take for granted today.

Another way to look at this is that there hasn't been much progress in the labor market over the last ~50 years. Wages have been stagnant for that long, states introduced legislation that neutered unions and organization is at a comparative low. Given the trend of replacing employees with contractors who have less rights and benefits, you can even say that we're taking steps backward compared to where we were not too long ago.

Re:Google contractors vote to unionize in historic landslide... by dehrmann on Thursday April 27, 2023 @12:59AM (#35723501)
> there hasn't been much progress in the labor market over the last ~50 years

The open question is whether this is the cause of effect of the decline of unions. I can make a case for either.

Re:Google contractors vote to unionize in historic landslide... by eyelidlessness on Thursday April 27, 2023 @12:50AM (#35723463)
Which is a pretty great testimonial for unions. They’ve been so effective that their lasting impact has sustained a century of adversarial counter efforts and half a century of decline in active membership. In contrast, the actual concentrations of wealth and power can’t seem to go more than a few years without flailing into crisis so severe everything stops to apply a temporary salve so it can all happen over and over again.
Re:Google contractors vote to unionize in historic landslide... by coryrc on Wednesday April 26, 2023 @10:49PM (#35722731)
I'm not allowed to plug in an electrical strip at a trade show.

I'm not allowed to pick up an item sitting twenty feet away on the loading dock.

(Both the above personal experience)

They make public transit too expensive: https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/mta-track-increase-numb...

Let's not pretend it's all sunshine and roses.

Re:Google contractors vote to unionize in historic landslide... by cogman10 on Wednesday April 26, 2023 @11:24PM (#35722954)
> I'm not allowed to plug in an electrical strip at a trade show.

Perhaps because some sockets are one the same circuit and they don't want to overload that? (At best, risking a power outage because of a circuit breaker going off and at worse a fire if you happened to plug your electrical strip into another electrical strip)

> I'm not allowed to pick up an item sitting twenty feet away on the loading dock.

Perhaps because there may be active work or equipment moving around and you aren't wearing high viz and aren't communicating with someone operating heavy equipment?

These 2 things, though, aren't union related. 1 of them (the electrical strip) may not even be regulation related but rather simply that the organizer has had problems with this in the past. The why for these rules aren't exactly hard to imagine or understand.

> They make public transit too expensive

Public transit is expensive because we refuse to accept the notion of operating it at a loss. We are perfectly capable of partially or fully subsidizing public transit through taxes. In fact, we'd probably save money by running it completely off of taxes because we'd eliminate all the measures we take to ensure someone isn't riding for free. Someone hopping a ticket stand wouldn't jeopardize our ability to keep the trains running. We could further save the tax payers money by adding enough public transit to eliminate or severely reduce the need to purchase cars. Directly saving money on car mileage/purchases/insurance and indirectly saving money by the reduced climate impact and cleaner air (less lung cancer).

Some public services are worth taxes. We (usually) think that way about police, fireman, libraries, and public schools. Heck, we already think that way in terms of transport (most roads aren't built through usage fees).

Re:Google contractors vote to unionize in historic landslide... by prepostertron on Wednesday April 26, 2023 @11:02PM (#35722827)
That article doesn't assert that unions are to blame for prices increasing. In fact, the only reference to price increases are from an interview from someone getting off the train who agreed that the trains should staff a conductor, and implied that fares were increasing despite the staff cuts.

If anything that article supports the idea that unions protect people, and without them companies will push even more irresponsible decisions that put people at risk for the sake of profits.

Re:Google contractors vote to unionize in historic landslide... by Frondo on Wednesday April 26, 2023 @10:56PM (#35722786)
I've done about a dozen trade shows and have done both of those things, from personal experience. (This anecdote comes up frequently in these discussions and I always wonder where from, because it's not anything like I've seen...)
Re:Google contractors vote to unionize in historic landslide... by AlbertCory on Wednesday April 26, 2023 @11:36PM (#35723029)
Where does it come from? I saw it myself at the 1981 NCC in Chicago. The Xerox trade show staff person with a roll of $100 bills for paying off the unions.

Granted that was a while ago.

Re:Google contractors vote to unionize in historic landslide... by Frondo on Thursday April 27, 2023 @12:19AM (#35723250)
Yeah, I guess things might have been different then. I was 3 at that time, and in doing occasional trade shows for the last 7 or 8 years (so, from mid 2010s on), I've just never experienced it; not in Seattle, San Diego, Baltimore, nor a handful of smaller cities in NY and DE.

Maybe the world has changed in the last 42 years, and it'd be helpful to qualify stories like these (where the original poster says he is not allowed, present tense) with where and when they've happened.

Re:Google contractors vote to unionize in historic landslide... by AlbertCory on Thursday April 27, 2023 @01:00AM (#35723509)
Can't argue with that. OP definitely used present tense.
Re:Google contractors vote to unionize in historic landslide... by bryik on Thursday April 27, 2023 @12:40AM (#35723401)
I worked in a government office where only unionized IT workers were allowed to move computer equipment. My boss gave me his old monitor after upgrading and I had to wait until after hours to move it. This was around 2018.

So the electrical strip thing seems plausible to me.

Re:Google contractors vote to unionize in historic landslide... by sinoue on Wednesday April 26, 2023 @11:57PM (#35723128)
Not sure why you are getting down voted. Anyone who has tried to setup a tradeshow booth in Vegas, NYC, etc has run into this.

A little less restriction at tradeshows from union rules would be welcomed and convention centers would be smart to bargain with the union for it.

As for Silicon Valley the hatchet job at Twitter wouldn't have been so easy if the company had been unionized.

I really wish the TVC at Austin Google well in their efforts to unionize. When Pichai gets almost a 1/4 billion a year in compensation surely there is room to pay folks at the bottom better. It shouldn't take several years contracting at Google to get a 50 cent raise to $14. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/google-subcontractors-face-lo...

Re:Google contractors vote to unionize in historic landslide... by refurb on Thursday April 27, 2023 @02:05AM (#35723872)
Yup, and the Inspector General for BART quit in disgust over rampant corruption and when she tried to investigate the union (among others) stonewalled like crazy.

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/investigation/bart-inspector-gene...

Unions can be great, but they can also abuse their power.

Re:Google contractors vote to unionize in historic landslide... by deltree7 on Thursday April 27, 2023 @12:34AM (#35723362)
Unions are cancer. Serve two bosses instead of one?

Mathematically Unions are there to serve the bottom 20% of the members while severely hampering / hindering top performers.

If you want to Union then please buy products / services from only Union shops and hire your local gardener, plumber from Union

Number of Firms that provide exceptional product/service with 100% union : ZERO

Number of Firms that provide exceptional product/service with 0% union : 1000+

The only people who are brainwashed are the progressives / liberals

Re:Google contractors vote to unionize in historic landslide... by heavyset_go on Thursday April 27, 2023 @01:02AM (#35723514)
Number of blockbuster film studios that gross hundreds of millions/billions of dollars and pay unionized A-list movie stars millions of dollars: All of them.

Number of top performing athletes, with million dollar contracts and unions, that entertain hundreds of millions of people: All of them.

Number of tech companies with offices in the EU that also hire unionized employees and haven't cannibalized themselves: All of them.

Re:Google contractors vote to unionize in historic landslide... by jessetemp on Wednesday April 26, 2023 @10:26PM (#35722585)
Not disagreeing with the general complacency of humans, but the frog thing is a myth. They only stay in the water if you remove their brain

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog

Re:Google contractors vote to unionize in historic landslide... by akiselev on Wednesday April 26, 2023 @10:39PM (#35722663)
> In 1869, while doing experiments searching for the location of the soul, German physiologist Friedrich Goltz demonstrated that a frog that has had its brain removed will remain in slowly heated water, but an intact frog attempted to escape the water when it reached 25 °C.

Now we need a religious version of the "In Mice" meme [1] that just ends "IN FROGS."

John 3:6: That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit... IN FROGS.

[1] https://twitter.com/justsaysinmice

Re:Google contractors vote to unionize in historic landslide... by inkywatcher on Wednesday April 26, 2023 @11:35PM (#35723021)
Ah, so the American worker analogy remains accurate.