Re:Moving Away from Algorithmic Curation
by flangola7 on Wednesday April 26, 2023 @05:09PM
(#35720051)
No need to add unnecessary political commentary
Re:Moving Away from Algorithmic Curation
by at_a_remove on Wednesday April 26, 2023 @05:25PM
(#35720240)
It's already in there. "How do you do this without introducing them to fascism, outrage fuel, shock content, or other trash?" and "This must include anti-fascism."
If it is in there, it's fair game to respond to.
Re:Moving Away from Algorithmic Curation
by madeofpalk on Wednesday April 26, 2023 @06:29PM
(#35720858)
> Perhaps I want what someone else considers "trash" or "shock content."
Possibly, but is that what you're getting? Or is the platform trying to maximise for engagement over 'content you might be interested in'?
We kind of know algorithmic feeds prioritised content that generates likes and comments - that's not necessarily or 'valuable' (for whoever's definition) content but it tends to promote "shock content" for the sake of shock in order to get engagement.
Re:Moving Away from Algorithmic Curation
by at_a_remove on Wednesday April 26, 2023 @08:47PM
(#35721874)
I remember at one point Netflix had some suggestions and I was all "Ooooh, aaah, yess!" Now I have literally no idea what they're optimizing for. It seems to be "random plus a strong suggestion of a Netflix original." Amazon Prime seems to be doing somewhat better, but now I have to wade through their branded stuff, and then Black Voices, and Still Other Voices, and then Some Other Voices, and various things that are promoted before I can get to the part where the algorithmic business kicks in.
I think there's a lot of "we must override the algorithm due to Reasons" going on and that must be separated from the actual algorithmic suggestions.
Conversely, I don't think you can separate engagement from "might be interested in," honestly. They're not quite synonyms but they do have a huge overlap.
Perhaps I want what someone else considers "trash" or "shock content." Certainly, forty years ago that would have included John Waters' works.
I remember when other people were deciding that a given work was indecent, or unChristian, or obscene. I wasn't a fan of that. Sub in "fascism" or "doubleplus ungood," I don't care. I'll just rely on the Orwell when I repeat his bit how "The word Fascism has now no meaning except in so far as it signifies 'something not desirable' ..." by, well, someone else.
Person-to-person works to the extent that you know a lot of people who have a good understanding of your tastes. I remember the bad old days where you had to know someone who was aware you were into some particular thing and could direct you to a 'zine. I'm told that I am fairly good at recommending horror films once I understand someone's taste, but not a lot of people can do that for me.
Are a lot of algorithms currently crap? Hell yeah! But if you care to stare at the painful whys, they emerge in each case. Netflix doesn't have an recommendation algo problem, it has a "catalog too small and packed with Netflix originals and if we just slight of hand hard enough you won't notice" problem. Amazon has a similar problem to eBay: a skillion shady resellers. Music's hard and probably always will be hard. The Music Genome Project, if it were automatable, would be a lot better than Spotify pushing a mixture of what it has that it wants to trend and what someone else who liked that track also liked.
These are hard problems, because with art, you're often looking for something like that last thing you had, but with some kind of variation. It's not like hamburgers, where you can build entire chains on the dependability of a hamburger experience. Still, we can get somewhere decent, but for other factors distorting the results.