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Re:The Palo Alto Research Center (PARC) Will Join SRI Intern... by VagueMag on Monday April 24, 2023 @06:01PM (#35693866)
For something of its size and influence very few people have heard of SRI, but it comes up frequently in 'noided online discussions about the overlap between Silicon Valley and military/intelligence. A lot of the things that PARC was credited with creating in the first place were really dreamed up at SRI, so it makes a certain sense for them to be merging:

https://squamuglia.wordpress.com/2017/04/16/67/#more-67

https://squamuglia.wordpress.com/2017/04/22/yes-kids-cookie-...

Re:The Palo Alto Research Center (PARC) Will Join SRI Intern... by rchiang on Monday April 24, 2023 @06:49PM (#35694302)
I think it's important to note that much (all?) of PARCs research has been oriented around the "office of the future". In the broadest sense of that vision, they had a huge hand in originating a lot of computing technologies.

And while SRI has had their impact in the computing industry, they also have other research labs that have very little to do with computing such as biomedical, education, and policy.

Re:The Palo Alto Research Center (PARC) Will Join SRI Intern... by fatneckbeard on Monday April 24, 2023 @07:28PM (#35694641)
sri was never gonna allow a bunch of hippies and bearded longhairs tour their facility in the spirit of academic comradeship. (IE no microsoft, no apple being allowed to walk around and talk to people in the 80s to get the ideas for Macintosh and Windows)

Ironically, Apple and Microsoft would never allow some stranger company to walk into their offices and see everything they were developing either. lol

Re:The Palo Alto Research Center (PARC) Will Join SRI Intern... by AlbertCory on Monday April 24, 2023 @08:11PM (#35694947)
Xerox had two meetings with Apple, in December 1979. Neither they nor Microsoft was ever able to "walk into their offices and see everything they were developing ."
Re:The Palo Alto Research Center (PARC) Will Join SRI Intern... by smilespray on Monday April 24, 2023 @08:23PM (#35695045)
Come on. Xerox gave away the crown jewels in those meetings.
Re:The Palo Alto Research Center (PARC) Will Join SRI Intern... by retrocryptid on Monday April 24, 2023 @08:49PM (#35695229)
Xerox was paid for the crown jewels and according to Larry Tesler, it didn't take any arm-twisting to get him to move to Apple as Xerox was dragging their feet commercializing PARC's innovations.
Re:The Palo Alto Research Center (PARC) Will Join SRI Intern... by AlbertCory on Monday April 24, 2023 @09:28PM (#35695490)
You clearly know nothing about this topic.
Re:The Palo Alto Research Center (PARC) Will Join SRI Intern... by fatneckbeard on Monday April 24, 2023 @11:11PM (#35696123)
yeah well my original point still stands.

"PARC was not at all secretive about its work. Its researchers published widely, and there was a regular flow of traffic between PARC and Stanford's computer science community. "

as opposed to a military intelligence company where all that would get you fired if not in prison.

Re:The Palo Alto Research Center (PARC) Will Join SRI Intern... by AlbertCory on Monday April 24, 2023 @11:33PM (#35696240)
I don't know what you're quoting. I was there, though.
Re:The Palo Alto Research Center (PARC) Will Join SRI Intern... by eternalban on Tuesday April 25, 2023 @07:19AM (#35698894)
I can't recall the female scientist's name, but I am certain have read an 'oral history' where this specific person, present when Apple people show up, angrily calls up Xerox HQ in east coast to protest and was told, over the phone, to "show them everything".
Re:The Palo Alto Research Center (PARC) Will Join SRI Intern... by jasonhong on Tuesday April 25, 2023 @08:17AM (#35699409)
I don't know which specific oral history, but you're most likely referring to Adele Goldberg. She's mentioned several times that she protested showing Steve Jobs their work. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adele_Goldberg_(computer_scien...
Re:The Palo Alto Research Center (PARC) Will Join SRI Intern... by eternalban on Tuesday April 25, 2023 @08:27AM (#35699520)
Yes that's her, thank you.
Re:The Palo Alto Research Center (PARC) Will Join SRI Intern... by AlbertCory on Tuesday April 25, 2023 @10:31AM (#35701029)
She was at the Computer History Museum 50th anniversary of Smalltalk event.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loEREmEPEOY

Re:The Palo Alto Research Center (PARC) Will Join SRI Intern... by eternalban on Tuesday April 25, 2023 @12:03PM (#35702329)
This one is different from the other source I recall. It could have been someone else's oral history and she was mentioned. This is what she says in her own OH:

-- [emph added: p.12 of https://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/access/text/20...] --

"When Stewart Brand came into PARC and there was a book Cybernetics 2? [II cybernetic frontiers], half of it was about the "secret" company and Stewart had pictures of PARC and so there had been publicity that I guess hadn’t been properly signed off on. And so there had been a bit of a “You don’t get to publish for awhile” period. I think Alan took it too seriously. He didn’t like having his hand slapped. We did start publishing again more in the ’76 timeframe including the personal dynamic media paper that Alan and I did for IEEE Computer Software. I wanted to go to corporate and ask for permission and it was a little risky because you didn’t know what would come back. There’s no reason for them to say yes.

Lucky for me, between the time I suggested it and actually asking, Xerox’s venture group had bought a lot of equity in a little fledgling computer company that wasn’t doing very well called Apple Computer and they had arranged for the Apple executives and then later the Lisa programming team, to come for a visit.

I kind of parlayed that into, “Well you’re willing to give it away. You’re not interested.” And I wrote this motivator about why we should be able to publish it all because we were planning to write a book and we were planning to have this community implementation event. I think it went to one of the principals at the venture group who then asked Jeff Rulifson his opinion. Jeff was on some special leave from PARC to corporate and he wrote “Oh sure, publish all this”. So I had it [the permission] on paper."

-- end --

I don't recall hearing about this Xerox venture group and its "lot of equity" in Apple. But ..

- source: https://www.cbinsights.com/research/report/corporate-venture... --

"Xerox had had an active CVC program since the 1960s, operating an internally managed fund that invested in some of the most legendary figures in Silicon Valley, including Raymond Kurzweil and Steve Jobs. Kurzweil got his start in technology when Xerox invested in his first company, Kurzweil Applied Intelligence Inc., in 1982, to develop a computer that could transcribe spoken English. The idea behind the investment was to create technology that would increase demand for Xerox’s printing products when it ultimately hit the market.

When Apple released its revolutionary Macintosh computer, some observers claimed that it had commercialized technologies first developed at Xerox PARC, such as the mouse, windows, and icons, even dating the origin of the supposed copying to a 1979 visit to the lab by Jobs and other Apple employees — the tour is considered a seminal event in Silicon Valley lore. Although the accusation that Apple outright copied its ideas for user interface from Xerox is generally refuted today, the revelations stung Xerox’s management. The company was eventually spurred into rethinking its CVC program in an effort to better capitalize on the company’s languishing in-house technologies."

-- end --

Re:The Palo Alto Research Center (PARC) Will Join SRI Intern... by AlbertCory on Tuesday April 25, 2023 @01:33PM (#35703856)
re the CVC program: I wrote about that extensively in here:

https://www.albertcory.io/lets-do-have-hindsight

they did "capitalize" on their technology in the 80's and 90's, mainly by allowing entrepreneurs a license to build with it (with no money put in).

Re:The Palo Alto Research Center (PARC) Will Join SRI Intern... by eternalban on Tuesday April 25, 2023 @03:49PM (#35705719)
Thanks for the interesting link. Who knew about Beretta? TIL!
Re:The Palo Alto Research Center (PARC) Will Join SRI Intern... by AlbertCory on Tuesday April 25, 2023 @05:46PM (#35707148)
You're welcome. Like I said, "800 years of making weapons" seems to be a myth.
Re:The Palo Alto Research Center (PARC) Will Join SRI Intern... by AlbertCory on Tuesday April 25, 2023 @10:13AM (#35700777)
I did some podcast interviews, and one host said he's talked to three people who were at the Apple meetings, and all three stories were different.
Re:The Palo Alto Research Center (PARC) Will Join SRI Intern... by lallysingh on Tuesday April 25, 2023 @08:03AM (#35699293)
Defense research publishes a lot of science too.
Re:The Palo Alto Research Center (PARC) Will Join SRI Intern... by mnky9800n on Tuesday April 25, 2023 @03:02AM (#35697373)
That first link was a fascinating read. I guess you wrote books about it?
Re:The Palo Alto Research Center (PARC) Will Join SRI Intern... by AlbertCory on Tuesday April 25, 2023 @01:06PM (#35703437)
Thanks!

Inventing the Future forbids any hindsight. No one knows how it will turn out.

Hence the title: what if we DO allow hindsight?

Re:The Palo Alto Research Center (PARC) Will Join SRI Intern... by pnw on Tuesday April 25, 2023 @12:17AM (#35696437)
Xerox received Apple stock for those meetings which they sold in the IPO. I’ve never seen anyone do a calculation of the present value of that stock but it’s probably a significant fraction of Xerox’s market cap today.
Re:The Palo Alto Research Center (PARC) Will Join SRI Intern... by AlbertCory on Tuesday April 25, 2023 @12:44AM (#35696577)
I'm pretty sure it was sold a long time ago.

However, in here: https://www.albertcory.io/lets-do-have-hindsight

I calculate some of the other PARC spinoffs they did. If they'd held onto all of it, it would dwarf the value of the copier & printer business.

Re:The Palo Alto Research Center (PARC) Will Join SRI Intern... by rchiang on Tuesday April 25, 2023 @01:25PM (#35703726)
Nice post there. There's definitely a lot of 20/20 hindsight that people apply to PARC's history with respect to computing.

It's clear that just the investments that Xerox did have would have been huge had they just held on to them. That's ignoring what they could have done had cashed out less conservatively and reinvested in ongoing technology concerns the same way that Intel Capital or Google Ventures has.

Beyond that, it would have been beyond epic for Xerox to have had all the right pieces to replace a huge chunk of the high tech ecosystem by itself. Each of the successes that "should have belonged to PARC" involves VCs, hundreds or thousands of employees, business pivots, decades of existence, and plain luck and timing.

Hank Chesborough's (formerly of Harvard Business School, at Berkeley Haas School of Business last I checked) lists 35 companies that spun out of Xerox in "The Governance and Performance of Xerox's Technology Spin-Off Companies". Just that level of brain drain/distraction was bad enough at times for PARC's ongoing work.

Re:The Palo Alto Research Center (PARC) Will Join SRI Intern... by AlbertCory on Tuesday April 25, 2023 @01:36PM (#35703895)
Yeah, I've been in touch with Dr. Chesborough and I went over some of his stuff in writing this:

https://www.albertcory.io/lets-do-have-hindsight

Butler Lampson quoted some Xerox executive at the time as saying, "We don't want to be a holding company!"

Nonetheless. Damn, WHAT a holding company!

Re:The Palo Alto Research Center (PARC) Will Join SRI Intern... by pnw on Wednesday April 26, 2023 @08:55AM (#35712902)
Thanks, interesting read. I guess the decision to sell all of those 100,00 shares at the Apple IPO was a pretty expensive blunder.
Re:The Palo Alto Research Center (PARC) Will Join SRI Intern... by retrocryptid on Monday April 24, 2023 @08:47PM (#35695214)
By the time apple was founded, many (most) of the people doing research that would be of interest to Jobs had already moved over to PARC. Larry Tesler springs immediately to mind, but Thierry Bardini's book on Engelbart has a more complete list. After the ARC fell apart in 1970, PARC was launching and was a natural place for them to land.
Re:The Palo Alto Research Center (PARC) Will Join SRI Intern... by lovecg on Monday April 24, 2023 @08:24PM (#35695050)
Most people have heard of Siri though that was named after SRI!
Re:The Palo Alto Research Center (PARC) Will Join SRI Intern... by packetslave on Tuesday April 25, 2023 @12:31AM (#35696503)
Re:The Palo Alto Research Center (PARC) Will Join SRI Intern... by lovecg on Tuesday April 25, 2023 @01:41PM (#35703966)
Huh not sure where I read this long time ago, but yeah it appears to only have a vague connection to SRI at best.

Here’s the president of SRI saying it was a pure coincidence: https://hbr.org/2015/09/the-president-of-sri-ventures-on-bri...

Here’s the cofounder saying that at least some of the appeal of the name was that some people liked the resemblance to SRI: https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2012/12/21/how-did-siri-g...

Re:The Palo Alto Research Center (PARC) Will Join SRI Intern... by technothrasher on Monday April 24, 2023 @08:32PM (#35695118)
When I hear SRI, I always think of the parapsychology research they did for 20 or so years from ~1970-1990 and their huge clash with the newly founded skeptical organization CSICOP (now CSI) in the late 70's.
Re:The Palo Alto Research Center (PARC) Will Join SRI Intern... by bhk on Monday April 24, 2023 @11:34PM (#35696247)
Yeah, I wonder how much money they milked out of the DoD on remote viewing and stuff like that.
Re:The Palo Alto Research Center (PARC) Will Join SRI Intern... by rbanffy on Tuesday April 25, 2023 @07:31AM (#35698996)
Ultimate respect to anyone who manages to be paid by the DoD to get high on LSD.
Re:The Palo Alto Research Center (PARC) Will Join SRI Intern... by VagueMag on Tuesday April 25, 2023 @11:23AM (#35701753)
My favorite explanation for the remote viewing stuff is that it was cover for advanced spy satellite imagery and transmission. Explaining away new capabilities you want to keep unknown to the world as "magic." https://twitter.com/mmabeuf/status/1371213766734573569?t=lrW...

The other theory I've encountered is that it was cover for ongoing mind control research after MKULTRA had to be wound down.

Re:The Palo Alto Research Center (PARC) Will Join SRI Intern... by bhk on Tuesday April 25, 2023 @02:28PM (#35704648)
Interesting...
Re:The Palo Alto Research Center (PARC) Will Join SRI Intern... by DoingIsLearning on Tuesday April 25, 2023 @01:55AM (#35696981)
Much of the Research leading up to the DaVinci Surgical Robot as is known today was in fact under SRI's umbrella, originally with the purpose of having battle field hospitals with remote surgery teleoperation.

Another great example of the overlap between Silicon Valley and military/intelligence. It's disconcerting how great tech for the masses is often spun out of a warfare motivation.