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Re:Saudi company draws unlimited Arizona ground water amid d... by slg on Sunday April 23, 2023 @01:51PM (#35678625)
It is wild to me that we still frame stories like this in such an openly xenophobic way. Your opinions on the Saudis should not matter. The nationality of the farm owner is completely irrelevant to the issue. Growing water intensive plants in the middle of the desert is stupid and bad even if 100% of the profit goes to Americans.
Re:Saudi company draws unlimited Arizona ground water amid d... by scatterhead on Sunday April 23, 2023 @01:59PM (#35678719)
It's wild to me that we frame legitimate concerns as xenophobic.

The second sentence explains why the nationality matters:

> Some farms are foreign-owned and are shipping the crop to Saudi Arabia, where it's illegal to grow because it takes too much water.

In this globalistic world it's worth considering that stringent policy in one area of the world can be worked around by taking advantage of lax policy in another area of the world. It's not xenophobic to talk about that. It would be ignorant not to.

Re:Saudi company draws unlimited Arizona ground water amid d... by slg on Sunday April 23, 2023 @02:08PM (#35678835)
>In this globalistic world it's worth considering that stringent policy in one area of the world can be worked around by taking advantage of lax policy in another area of the world. It's not xenophobic to talk about that. It would be ignorant not to.

Saudi owned farms circumventing Saudi laws is an issue for the people of Saudi Arabia. If it is legal in the US, it should be legal for everyone. If you want it to be illegal in the US, it should be illegal for everyone. The owners are and should be irrelevant.

Re:Saudi company draws unlimited Arizona ground water amid d... by morelisp on Sunday April 23, 2023 @03:43PM (#35679777)
> If you want it to be illegal in the US, it should be illegal for everyone.

It is reasonable for a region to decide its natural resources should benefit the people who live there above people who do not live there.

Re:Saudi company draws unlimited Arizona ground water amid d... by Eumenes on Sunday April 23, 2023 @04:00PM (#35679919)
This 100%.
Re:Saudi company draws unlimited Arizona ground water amid d... by scatterhead on Sunday April 23, 2023 @04:03PM (#35679951)
> If it is legal in the US, it should be legal for everyone

That's a strawman. No one is arguing against that.

How a resource is being used by foreign corporations is an important input to policy decisions.

We're at a point in today's society where the mere suggestion that nationality might be relevant is met with accusations of xenophobia. It's the same way with race or sex.

Re:Saudi company draws unlimited Arizona ground water amid d... by phendrenad2 on Sunday April 23, 2023 @04:33PM (#35680286)
* * *
Re:Saudi company draws unlimited Arizona ground water amid d... by morelisp on Sunday April 23, 2023 @04:05PM (#35679965)
Race exists literally only to draw unfair distinctions.
Re:Saudi company draws unlimited Arizona ground water amid d... by effingwewt on Sunday April 23, 2023 @05:17PM (#35680722)
Then how would you explain nature being 'unfair'.

Race exists due to nature and we use it to denote distinctions in our collective race.

We should celebrate our differences, not pretend they don't exist, or are merely humans being derogatory to each other.

Re:Saudi company draws unlimited Arizona ground water amid d... by viciousvoxel on Monday April 24, 2023 @07:08AM (#35686064)
While I agree with your conclusion, unless by "nature" you mean "human nature," the statement > Race exists due to nature is absolutely false. Race is a cultural construct and has little to do with biology or national origin.
Re:Saudi company draws unlimited Arizona ground water amid d... by slg on Sunday April 23, 2023 @05:16PM (#35680719)
> We're at a point in today's society where the mere suggestion that nationality might be relevant is met with accusations of xenophobia.

How is the nationality relevant? Would this behavior be acceptable if the farms were owned by an Australian company? What about a publicly traded American company? What about an Arizonan billionaire? I don’t see how that would change anything.

Monopolizing natural resources is bad regardless of the nationality or residency of the people profiting.

Re:Saudi company draws unlimited Arizona ground water amid d... by lisasays on Sunday April 23, 2023 @05:45PM (#35680967)
The owners are and should be irrelevant.

In geopolitics (especially as applied to critical resources) -- and that's what this comes down to, really; not simply greed -- this never the case, of course.

It's always relevant who the owners of are - and what kinds of influence led them to being able to put down stakes where they have.

You might say it's the name of the game, in fact.

Re:Saudi company draws unlimited Arizona ground water amid d... by zekrioca on Sunday April 23, 2023 @06:07PM (#35681159)
So is it always relevant to be xenophobic?
Re:Saudi company draws unlimited Arizona ground water amid d... by tough on Sunday April 23, 2023 @06:46PM (#35681468)
It's always relevant to know who's trying to fuck with you
Re:Saudi company draws unlimited Arizona ground water amid d... by lisasays on Sunday April 23, 2023 @08:44PM (#35682346)
It's not xenophobia. It's simply a matter of being aware of how things work.
Re:Saudi company draws unlimited Arizona ground water amid d... by HybridCurve on Monday April 24, 2023 @07:47AM (#35686408)
Aside from purely capitalistic motivations, there is such a thing as environmental warfare. Unless you want to naively assume that any foreign nation might always have the best interests of another in mind when exploiting their resources.
Re:Saudi company draws unlimited Arizona ground water amid d... by scatterhead on Sunday April 23, 2023 @06:52PM (#35681525)
A company is not separable from the regulatory environment and culture in which it's based. A British company opening a diamond mine in Botswana is a very different story from a Namibian company opening the same diamond mine.
Re:Saudi company draws unlimited Arizona ground water amid d... by rhaway84773 on Sunday April 23, 2023 @02:32PM (#35679142)
Yeah I don’t get it. Would it be ok if it was an American country bleeding the state dry?

The nationality of the company seems the least important issue in this whole story.

Re:Saudi company draws unlimited Arizona ground water amid d... by mint2 on Sunday April 23, 2023 @05:45PM (#35680968)
I think the notion is that the company has zero interest in the well being of the land because they have no ties to it.

That does have some logic, similar to out of state landlords or corporate landlords milking a property for as much rent with absolute minimal upkeep as they have no involvement in the community.

A flaw with that argument with the foreign water exporters and also with the landlord is that local landlords or businesses also can be equally bad.

But still, there is some sense to it and may have some truth if the average behaviors were quantified

Re:Saudi company draws unlimited Arizona ground water amid d... by morelisp on Sunday April 23, 2023 @02:13PM (#35678910)
It is wild to me that this is trotted out when "Saudi" is both a demonym and yet also an actual ruling family name. (And for context, I think it was accurate to describe it as a xenophobic "Muslim ban" and I think "Chinese coronavirus" is racist.)

Yes, it's bad even if Americans do it, but it's definitely worse if it goes to Saud.

Would you object to "Rockefellers draw unlimited etc"? What if they also literally owned a country?

Re:Saudi company draws unlimited Arizona ground water amid d... by slg on Sunday April 23, 2023 @02:56PM (#35679376)
>Would you object to "Rockefellers draw unlimited etc"? What if they also literally owned a country?

Maybe you misunderstood my point. I'm not giving the Saudis a pass. I would object to anyone doing this whether it is the Saudis, the Rockefellers, or some middle class farmer. The problem here is a poorly constructed regulatory environment which created a tragedy of the commons situation. We made it profitable to do something that is bad for the local environment and inherently stupid. People shouldn't grow water intensive plans in the desert.

The problem here is "company draws unlimited Arizona ground water amid drought". There doesn't need to be an adjective before "company".

Re:Saudi company draws unlimited Arizona ground water amid d... by morelisp on Sunday April 23, 2023 @02:59PM (#35679396)
You also said "such an openly xenophobic way." I reject the idea that a) the framing is xenophobic in this case, and b) it needs to be framed more generally before we can fix this specific case.
Re:Saudi company draws unlimited Arizona ground water amid d... by slg on Sunday April 23, 2023 @03:13PM (#35679512)
From the article:

>"We cannot afford to give our water away frankly to anyone, let alone the Saudis, for free," said Mayes.

This person is saying that giving the water away to the Saudis is worse than just giving it away. It isn't simply the action of taking the water that is troubling them. It is that it is going to a scary other. This is classic xenophobia.

Re:Saudi company draws unlimited Arizona ground water amid d... by morelisp on Sunday April 23, 2023 @03:39PM (#35679749)
"Saudi" is not just a demonym like "German" or "Chinese" but a specific political program, and even a specific small set of extremely bad people. Fixing that would not make a "free Saudi Arabia" in the way we might imagine a "free Tibet" but literally a different country not named after their psychopathic kings.

It is not xenophobia to acknowledge it's worse to do something dumb which enriches your ideological and material enemies than to just do something dumb.

Re:Saudi company draws unlimited Arizona ground water amid d... by seventhtiger on Sunday April 23, 2023 @06:14PM (#35681215)
As a Saudi, good job dehumanizing us.
Re:Saudi company draws unlimited Arizona ground water amid d... by yesco on Sunday April 23, 2023 @04:01PM (#35679924)
I'm shocked anyone would even consider this xenophobic at all. Why would our opinions on the Saudis not matter? You aren't making any sense to me.

It would be one thing if it was irrational, like not wanting to go to a Saudi barber, but when foreign nationals are draining critical geopolitically relevant resources, regardless of if other Americans are doing it to, to call it xenophobic to even mention the association seems like pure madness to me. There is nothing irrational about questioning the motives here.

Re:Saudi company draws unlimited Arizona ground water amid d... by Tangurena2 on Monday April 24, 2023 @02:01PM (#35690977)
Utah has also been having water problems. Agriculture uses most of the water in UT, the governor has a farm that grows hay/alfalfa for export to China. With water shortages, instead of cutting back on his farm's water consumption, he got on the TV and told Utahns to "pray for rain".

Arizona passed a law requiring developments of 6 or more homes to provide for water. Consequently, many developers now make all of their developments 5 homes in order to skirt that law. Urban water suppliers (which are government run utilities)_have cut those suburban/rural customers off. Which is making the water problem madly political.