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Re:iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe by Aaargh20318 on Sunday April 23, 2023 @03:29AM (#35674139)
> The prime example is that apple gives apps unfettered access to network connections. (…) You cannot even find out what apps are doing.

Settings -> Privacy & Security -> App Privacy Report

It shows you per application what data they are accessing, which sensors they are accessing and which domains the app is contacting. It also reports when they were doing this and how often. You can even export this data as a JSON file.

Re:iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe by cryotopippto on Sunday April 23, 2023 @03:41AM (#35674197)
Only took them iOS 15.2 for this.
Re:iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe by CrampusDestrus on Sunday April 23, 2023 @03:47AM (#35674221)
That's moving the goalpost though
Re:iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe by eviks on Sunday April 23, 2023 @04:09AM (#35674340)
Why did you move them to only include a subset of devices?
Re:iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe by CrampusDestrus on Sunday April 23, 2023 @04:44AM (#35674528)
what?
Re:iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe by Nition on Sunday April 23, 2023 @04:52AM (#35674563)
Worth noting maybe that although iOS 15 came out only in 2021, support for iOS 15 goes back to the iPhone 6S from 2015. Not very many people actively using iPhones older than that today.
Re:iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe by Razengan on Sunday April 23, 2023 @04:19AM (#35674389)
How long did it take for Android to have finely grained permissions?
Re:iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe by vetinari on Sunday April 23, 2023 @05:15AM (#35674662)
Since start. Originally, they were too fine-grained though.
Re:iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe by Razengan on Sunday April 23, 2023 @08:52AM (#35675827)
https://www.howtogeek.com/177711/ios-has-app-permissions-too... (2013)

https://source.android.com/docs/core/permissions/runtime_per...

Man the amount of false shit that gets thrown around by these Android vs iOS mobs, usually by people who don't even know their own side.

Re:iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe by vetinari on Sunday April 23, 2023 @02:03PM (#35678764)
I don't understand your comment.

The original poster asked about _fine-grained permissions_. Not about _runtime permissions_. Details matter.

Android did have very fine-grained permissions since first betas. Yes, they were install-time - a policy was generated at install time by the system, and the app itself was unable to change anything about it. Technically, it was a nice system, but users didn't understand that, they were asking for simplified model from iOS, so they got it in Android's 6.0 _runtime permissions_.

In the end, neither of these system (or: original Android did have it, but the simplified 6.0+ doesn't) has the most important permission: can an app talk to the network?

Re:iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe by Aaargh20318 on Sunday April 23, 2023 @04:09PM (#35679994)
> Android did have very fine-grained permissions since first betas. Yes, they were install-time

They weren’t really that fine-grained from a user perspective. You could not accept/refuse individual permissions, you either accepted everything or simply not install the app.

iOS always had fine-grained permission in that you could grant/refuse individual permissions. For example: you could allow an app to access the camera but refuse location services. Android only recently gained that capability.

Even more important, iOS always put the permission request in context. If I install an app and it asks for a ton of permissions I have no idea why it needs them and if it makes sense for that app to have them. Why would a chat client need access to my photos ? But on iOS, I get that request the first time I choose to send a photo to someone. I immediately see by the context why it needs that permission and I can make an informed decision.

Re:iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe by vetinari on Monday April 24, 2023 @04:12PM (#35692532)
> They weren’t really that fine-grained from a user perspective. You could not accept/refuse individual permissions, you either accepted everything or simply not install the app.

They were fine grained: apps either had them in their manifest, or not. If not, they could not call the respective APIs without getting an exception.

Because there were so many, it would be a great burden to app developers to check for random mix of required permissions, whether it was granted or not. The complexity would shoot over the roof. When Android switched to runtime permissions, all the detailed permissions were grouped into fewer coarse ones; exactly because so much detail would be unbearable for both users (fatigue from the alerts) and developers (handling the enabled/disabled matrix).

As far as I remember, iOS originally didn't have any permissions. It got them once certain app was stealing users address books, so it got confirmation for accessing contacts, camera/photos and a third thing that escapes me at the moment (location?).

> But on iOS, I get that request the first time I choose to send a photo to someone. I immediately see by the context why it needs that permission and I can make an informed decision.

The app can also remember that it got the permissions and do the nefarious thing behind your back. While it may look better, it is really not; it also won't work if the permission system is fine-grained: too many types of permissions and users will get lost. Also, users accidentally pick the wrong choice and then wonder, why the app doesn't work like they expect, or how to change it.

Re:iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe by ScoobleDoodle on Sunday April 23, 2023 @03:46AM (#35674217)
Apparently first one has to turn it on to start gathering the usage data. I just turned it on and it started with no data. So I’ll see how it work’s going forward.

Thank you for sharing.

Re:iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe by YeBanKo on Sunday April 23, 2023 @04:37AM (#35674490)
App Privacy Report lets you know if an app might have leaked your data, firewall can help you make sure it does not happen. Two different purposes.
Re:iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe by webmobdev on Sunday April 23, 2023 @06:28AM (#35675020)
And enabling this also allows Apple to collect the data from you to "improve the service". So Apple will now have more data on you.
Re:iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe by latexr on Sunday April 23, 2023 @07:53AM (#35675460)
Do you have a source for the claim? Just checked the feature and the “Learn more…” text specifically says data is kept locally.
Re:iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe by m463 on Sunday April 23, 2023 @04:12PM (#35680043)

  nicehost.benigndomain.com IN CNAME creepy.domain.biz
(or other similar techniques)