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Re:The Loophole That Made Cars in America So Big by docandrew on Saturday April 22, 2023 @12:55PM (#35668526)
Not discussed here is car seat and seatbelt requirements. If you have multiple children in car seats or boosters, you’re going to have a hard time getting more than one in the backseat of a sedan.
Re:The Loophole That Made Cars in America So Big by tzs on Saturday April 22, 2023 @01:16PM (#35668776)
There are sedans that can have three child seats installed on the backseat.

See [1] and [2] for examples.

Note that the second link is to an Australian site, so may be using car seats that are not available in the US.

Here's a unit, not available in the US, that fits 3 kids in the back of a Fiat 500 [3]. They have a 4 seater [4] that works in a Honda Civic and similar sized cars.

[1] https://www.carmax.com/articles/cars-that-fit-three-car-seat...

[1] https://www.onlineauto.com.au/best-cars/5-seat-cars-fit-3-ch...

[3] https://www.multimac.com/p/multimac_1000_3_seater

[4] https://www.multimac.com/p/multimac_1200_4_seater

Re:The Loophole That Made Cars in America So Big by docandrew on Saturday April 22, 2023 @01:39PM (#35669035)
A custom $1500 set of car seats for a small compact is unreasonable. Good luck fitting three normal car seats in any of the sedans in that first link. It’s difficult enough in a _full size truck_.
Re:The Loophole That Made Cars in America So Big by latortuga on Saturday April 22, 2023 @03:06PM (#35669899)
Is it though? You'd easily save that 1500 by buying a smaller car.
Re:The Loophole That Made Cars in America So Big by prepend on Saturday April 22, 2023 @03:22PM (#35670077)
If you have triplets or three small children then you will be used to $1500 on stuff. Do not look up prices for strollers.
Re:The Loophole That Made Cars in America So Big by sbaiddn on Saturday April 22, 2023 @02:03PM (#35669300)
1. Where's the reverse facing seat for infants? Ive had one installed in my car since '16 and Ill continue to have one for another three years (legally anyway. I hate them and Ill probably chuck it in two).

2. There are tons of car review sites touting three cars seats side by side. I own one of these cars. They don't actually fit. Not in real life. Think of it like the McBurger commercial on TV. In real life... bleh.

3. A big car solves many problems other than transporting three kids. Ive only put 2800 miles on my SUV this year, but:

- Ive driven six (six!) people on two >600 mi journeys.

- Ive loaded it with all the tiles and flooring needed for my remodel

- picked up 2x4s and the like

- taken my neighbors kid's to the theater with my family many times

Re:The Loophole That Made Cars in America So Big by smeej on Saturday April 22, 2023 @03:11PM (#35669964)
Which of these things can't be done with a minivan? They're a lot less "cool" looking, but they can accomplish the same things.
Re:The Loophole That Made Cars in America So Big by hallucy on Saturday April 22, 2023 @04:24PM (#35670582)
In what sense are minivans “better” than SUVs such that this question is relevant? I could imagine some have lower bumper heights (safer for pedestrians) but they’re definitely getting higher. One imagines they are broadly comparable in terms of weight.

(Personally I find minivans have more utility, but I don’t feel like I’m doing something “right” by owning one instead of an SUV).

Re:The Loophole That Made Cars in America So Big by sbaiddn on Sunday April 23, 2023 @12:03PM (#35677386)
Minivans do have more utility in the hardware store since they open up more, but modern "SUV"s are dressed up minivans and get similar millage as an SUV.

So I really don't understand minivan love paired with SUV hate (mid sized ones anyway)

Re:The Loophole That Made Cars in America So Big by sbaiddn on Sunday April 23, 2023 @09:04AM (#35675892)
Indeed, and when I was looking to buy my SUV i was gravitating towards the minivan version of my SUV. But it didnt come with AWD, and my wife insisted on it despite my protests.

In fact the minivan would have been more practical, but environmentally indistinguishable. The minivan has the same engine my SUV has and, to my eye anyway, has a larger frontal area.

Re:The Loophole That Made Cars in America So Big by hoherd on Saturday April 22, 2023 @01:13PM (#35668746)
Minivans are the most convenient vehicle for families with multiple children. Minivans are not classified as SUV's.
Re:The Loophole That Made Cars in America So Big by ghaff on Saturday April 22, 2023 @01:24PM (#35668871)
I have friends (not soccer moms) who often transport a lot of people for activities (like shuttles for whitewater paddling). A number of them use minivans and don't like how the options have decreased relative to 3-row SUVs which they think are relatively less practical cars for their purposes. (And I tend to agree.)
Re:The Loophole That Made Cars in America So Big by kube-system on Saturday April 22, 2023 @01:46PM (#35669113)
The market optimizes for what people will buy, not what they like. If people begrudgingly buy 3 row SUVs instead of minivans, the bean counters count that as a win.

There are still 4 minivans on the US market, and really I don’t think there’s space for any others to sell successfully. The ones that exist are damn competitive for what they are, and they still don’t sell well.

Re:The Loophole That Made Cars in America So Big by ghaff on Saturday April 22, 2023 @01:56PM (#35669225)
>There are still 4 minivans on the US market, and really I don’t think there’s space for any others to sell successfully. The ones that exist are damn competitive for what they are, and they still don’t sell well.

Oh I don't really disagree. The Sienna and Odyssey seem like good vehicles. I'm less familiar with the remaining American(?) models.

I also don't know enough to meaningfully speculate why 3-row SUVs took over from minivans for fairly similar use cases even though they seem less effective in a lot of circumstances. Part of it is probably image--especially for some male drivers--but I lack the data to have a strong opinion.

Re:The Loophole That Made Cars in America So Big by UniverseHacker on Saturday April 22, 2023 @04:24PM (#35670579)
Most of the “SUVs” in the US market are really just minivans disguised to look masculine. It took a few decades for manufacturers to realize that this is what people wanted- the rugged looks of a 4x4 with the people transporting ability of a minivan, and no wasted expense or weight on offroad ability. The VW Atlas for example is made specifically for the US market, a 3 row front wheel drive minivan that looks SUV like.

It was pretty funny 20 years ago before this was realized- big SUVs had low range transfer cases, skid plates, lockers, air suspension, and tons of other expensive and complicated offroad hardware. The people buying and driving these had no idea what those parts were for, and only found out they had them when they would accidentally activate them on pavement and get an expensive repair bill.

Re:The Loophole That Made Cars in America So Big by pandaman on Sunday April 23, 2023 @12:17PM (#35677547)
RAV4 and HR-V came out in 1990s, somehow I doubt doubt they had any off-road equipment installed in the base even of the 4WD trims. Very few people looked for off-road capabilities indeed, this is why the unibody "crossovers" exploded in the 90s as they are more practical than station wagons (which almost disappeared since then) and minivans in many cases.
Re:The Loophole That Made Cars in America So Big by UniverseHacker on Monday April 24, 2023 @07:20PM (#35694571)
The first generation RAV4 has a center diff lock, and a good amount of ground clearance, but the vehicles I was talking about are mostly full sized premium SUVs loaded with expensive gadgets like the Lexus LX, VW Touareg, Porsche Cayenne, Jeep Grand Cherokee, etc. Now all of those companies make similar sized vehicles with less offroad equipment.
Re:The Loophole That Made Cars in America So Big by pandaman on Tuesday April 25, 2023 @08:33AM (#35699582)
And the offroad equipment is still as optional now as it used to be.
Re:The Loophole That Made Cars in America So Big by jabroni_salad on Saturday April 22, 2023 @02:04PM (#35669315)
I don't get why anybody that has operated a sliding door would choose a 3row SUV. It's just so practical and you don't have to worry about the kiddos door dinging anyone.
Re:The Loophole That Made Cars in America So Big by stcroixx on Saturday April 22, 2023 @08:58PM (#35672353)
Just one more thing to break. I’ll take a standard manual door any day.
Re:The Loophole That Made Cars in America So Big by docandrew on Saturday April 22, 2023 @01:44PM (#35669092)
For CAFE purposes SUVs and minivans are both considered “light trucks.”
Re:The Loophole That Made Cars in America So Big by sbaiddn on Saturday April 22, 2023 @02:06PM (#35669334)
Most mid sized SUV (the most popular ones) are minivans dressed up as SUVs.

Unless you're looking at an expedition or the like, they're all unibody, front wheel drive, and turbo charged inline fours. Just like a minivan.

The SUVs of old had a truck chassis, a large V6 or V8, rear wheel drive.

Re:The Loophole That Made Cars in America So Big by 1-6 on Saturday April 22, 2023 @01:11PM (#35668721)
Yeah, why not allow for 3-row wagons and the return of 3rd rows with reversed seating? It seems like an easy win for some families who have to choose between an SUV or van.
Re:The Loophole That Made Cars in America So Big by lukas099 on Saturday April 22, 2023 @01:58PM (#35669243)
Man, I loved those rear-facing seats as a kid.
Re:The Loophole That Made Cars in America So Big by sbaiddn on Saturday April 22, 2023 @02:09PM (#35669369)
They were great. Especially in college with chill friends
Re:The Loophole That Made Cars in America So Big by sbaiddn on Saturday April 22, 2023 @02:09PM (#35669365)
Putting the seat there is easy. The trick is making it safe when it's on or behind the rear axle. Everyone else in the car is in a cocoon.
Re:The Loophole That Made Cars in America So Big by nine_k on Saturday April 22, 2023 @02:33PM (#35669588)
What makes it less safe?
Re:The Loophole That Made Cars in America So Big by ultrarunner on Saturday April 22, 2023 @02:52PM (#35669762)
The rest of the giant vehicles on the road
Re:The Loophole That Made Cars in America So Big by sbaiddn on Sunday April 23, 2023 @09:00AM (#35675872)
Dumb weight for one. Structural design for another. Everything in between the teo axles has to be very strong since it keeps forces generated by the road from ripping the car apart.

On top of that, outside the axles, you're in the automobile's crumple zone - ie it's deliberately designed to fold in itself to absorb the blow of impact.

I don't like putting my mother in law on my SUV's third row - I'm loath to put my kid

Re:The Loophole That Made Cars in America So Big by sbaiddn on Saturday April 22, 2023 @01:51PM (#35669168)
Yup. I can squeeze the kids in the Golf... if my eldest doesn't use her booster.

I can put them in the Sorrento.... But I have to buckle her into her seat belt while shes standing holding the boosted. Then I have to lift them both to get them i to position.

We want a new car. We were going to buy a Sienna hybrid. But they're ridiculously priced, unobtainium and, frankly, not that big. So Im looking at a low milage Expedition Max or convincing the wife for a Sprinter.

Re:The Loophole That Made Cars in America So Big by freedomben on Saturday April 22, 2023 @02:57PM (#35669816)
Yep, we just got our Sienna hybrid a couple weeks ago. We literally waited 19 months to get it. It's beyond absurd at this point.

Maybe some people are buying SUVs because they can't wait until their new baby is walking and talking before driving them somewhere?

Re:The Loophole That Made Cars in America So Big by UniverseHacker on Saturday April 22, 2023 @04:30PM (#35670633)
The golf is such a well designed car… a tiny efficient car with more usable space inside than many SUVs.

When I had a kid I went from a golf to a full sized SUV and was shocked to find that the usable space was barely any larger.

Re:The Loophole That Made Cars in America So Big by sbaiddn on Saturday April 22, 2023 @07:00PM (#35671687)
Love the Golf, but honestly, the hatchback versa's space efficiency impressed me more than the golf. It's significantly smaller than the golf, but its tall, has a smaller engine bay and very thin doors.

It was easier to pack my firstborn's stuff in it than the Golf. We got rid of it for the Sorrento when we got rear ended when my daughter was four days old. Then I decided I'd get the heaviest vehicle I could then afford - the Sorrento.

Re:The Loophole That Made Cars in America So Big by prepend on Saturday April 22, 2023 @03:21PM (#35670064)
I don’t know about that. I had a tiny Audi a3 over 10 years ago and easily fit two giant recaro car seats. And a booster seat sat between them.
Re:The Loophole That Made Cars in America So Big by IshKebab on Sunday April 23, 2023 @06:19AM (#35674965)
You can get two car seats in pretty much any not tiny car. Three or more, sure. Are 3+ children families really that common in America? They're pretty rare in the UK now due to childcare costs and the fact that housewives are rare.