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Re:Tech Bosses Are Letting Dictators Censor What Americans See by rightbyte on Friday April 21, 2023 @02:56PM (#35658343)
I have never understood the relativism about math fundamentals. What does it matter what we "agree to" or not? Either it is true or not. There is like no room for "kinda true but really it ..." in '1 + 1 = 2'. And I am not talking about notation semantics here.
Re:Tech Bosses Are Letting Dictators Censor What Americans See by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF on Friday April 21, 2023 @03:12PM (#35658592)
> kinda true but really it ...

This isn't what I'm talking about. The agreement means it's not "universal". It's only true because we agree it's true. Can you prove that 1 = 1 or do we have to agree that 1 = 1? If you can't prove it, is it a "universal truth"? I'm asserting that a truth which requires an agreed context[0] is not "universal".

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axiom

Re:Tech Bosses Are Letting Dictators Censor What Americans See by Retric on Friday April 21, 2023 @03:19PM (#35658667)
The universal nature of mathematical truth isn’t dependent on agreement. Instead it’s only universally true when you include all those seemingly unspoken “agreements.”
Re:Tech Bosses Are Letting Dictators Censor What Americans See by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF on Friday April 21, 2023 @03:22PM (#35658720)
> isn’t dependent on agreement

It is by definition. If you disagree, go write a mathematical proof that 1 = 1. There are many in the world who would love to see it.

Re:Tech Bosses Are Letting Dictators Censor What Americans See by Retric on Friday April 21, 2023 @03:27PM (#35658793)
Hardly, there are sets of axioms where 1 = 1 which already show this in exquisite detail.
Re:Tech Bosses Are Letting Dictators Censor What Americans See by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF on Friday April 21, 2023 @03:42PM (#35658963)
I'm not sure what you mean by this, particularly this phrasing: "sets of axioms where 1 = 1". 1 = 1 is an axiom, not something that's proven by any set of axioms.

But I'm willing to believe I'm simply naive here. You say there is some set of axioms which prove that 1 = 1. Are those axioms not agreements? Since you seem to be familiar, what are those axioms?

Re:Tech Bosses Are Letting Dictators Censor What Americans See by Retric on Friday April 21, 2023 @04:33PM (#35659676)
What you are missing is 1 = 1 isn’t inherently true on it’s own.

There are sets of axioms where 1 = 1 is false, different sets where it’s undefined, and finally sets of axioms where 1 = 1 is true.

However, for a given set of axioms there is no choice and nothing to agree upon. That’s what makes math universally true.