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Re:Mullvad VPN was subject to a search warrant by andygeorge on Thursday April 20, 2023 @09:04AM (#35639312)
ah yes, notoriously-anonymous physical mail
Re:Mullvad VPN was subject to a search warrant by blamarvt on Thursday April 20, 2023 @09:09AM (#35639376)
I'm confused by your sarcasm. A one-time physical mailing can be incredibly anonymous.
Re:Mullvad VPN was subject to a search warrant by stametseater on Thursday April 20, 2023 @12:02PM (#35642122)
It's also incredibly easy to fuck up and accidentally hand them a DNA sample, fingerprints, handwriting sample, etc.
Re:Mullvad VPN was subject to a search warrant by zaphar on Thursday April 20, 2023 @12:43PM (#35642673)
Anonymity is not binary. It's a spectrum. Phyical cash mailed to a company with only an account number is significantly more anonymous than a check or credit card they bill.

Perfect anonymity is probably impossible because information theory is impossible to escape. Which means you are trying to determine how far along the spectrum you can reasonably get for your particular risk profile.

Comments that pretend like perfect anonymity is the goal or act like it's binary are singularly unhelpful.

Re:Mullvad VPN was subject to a search warrant by generalizations on Thursday April 20, 2023 @09:08AM (#35639354)
I mean, just don't put a return address on it, and drop it off in a random post office box.
Re:Mullvad VPN was subject to a search warrant by callahad on Thursday April 20, 2023 @09:16AM (#35639465)
All standard British stamps now have unique Data Matrix codes on them, which means you also have to source your stamps anonymously.
Re:Mullvad VPN was subject to a search warrant by rvnx on Thursday April 20, 2023 @09:22AM (#35639537)
Can bet 99.99% that Mullvad throws the envelope in the trash and just forgets about it.

So, yes, there is a theory that someone may go in the trash in Sweden, finds the envelope, the stamp (and it has to be a british one), investigate who bought the stamp, get the assistance of the shopkeeper in UK (without raising suspicions), successfully reviews tons of security cameras footage to find who bought, etc.

And still don't know which activity to link it to.

A perfect waste of public resources if the NSA really does that, when all they needed to do is to purchase a VPN provider or fund Tor and claim to be no-logs VPN ;)

Re:Mullvad VPN was subject to a search warrant by noirscape on Thursday April 20, 2023 @09:40AM (#35639743)
* * *
Re:Mullvad VPN was subject to a search warrant by e4m2 on Thursday April 20, 2023 @09:48AM (#35639845)
> Can bet 99.99% that Mullvad throws the envelope in the trash and just forgets about it.

Better yet, they shred it: https://mullvad.net/en/help/no-logging-data-policy/#payments.

Re:Mullvad VPN was subject to a search warrant by mhitza on Thursday April 20, 2023 @10:34AM (#35640666)
It would be better to burn those envelopes than shred them, IMO.
Re:Mullvad VPN was subject to a search warrant by SV_BubbleTime on Thursday April 20, 2023 @10:57AM (#35641099)
Remember, the PC way to burn trash is to call it a “micro biomass power plant”.
Re:Mullvad VPN was subject to a search warrant by michaelt on Thursday April 20, 2023 @10:06AM (#35640142)
> So, yes, there is a theory that someone may go in the trash in Sweden, finds the envelope[...]

Presumably the theory is more like [1] - that the postal service, when they scan the envelope to read the address, save the scanned image and give it to the cops.

I agree that the NSA would be better off just running their own VPN services - or indeed intercepting everything on major backbones and just seeing what source IPs connect to Mullvad's servers.

[1] https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/07/us-postal-servic...

Re:Mullvad VPN was subject to a search warrant by sangnoir on Thursday April 20, 2023 @11:34AM (#35641693)
> Can bet 99.99% that Mullvad throws the envelope in the trash and just forgets about it.

Storage is cheap - really cheap. I bet automatically capturing images of all mail during sorting and archiving that for years is not only viable, but a vital investigation/intelligence tool. One would ask Mullvad for the cash payment dates[1], and cross-reference with all mail sent to a Mullvad postal address. One city-level datapoint on where user was, cross-checked with the latest IP address, where stamps were bought, and you've massively trimmed the list of suspects, especially if they are behind a NAT and sharing the IP.

1. They have to keep track of payment dates, which is a side channel.

Re:Mullvad VPN was subject to a search warrant by dghlsakjg on Thursday April 20, 2023 @12:44PM (#35642678)
USPS scans all envelopes.

You can get scans of all your mail through the informed delivery program.

Re:Mullvad VPN was subject to a search warrant by xp84 on Thursday April 20, 2023 @02:25PM (#35644095)
Wow, looks like you lost that bet! They indeed shred that envelope.

"Put the money in an envelope together with the payment token and send it to us. We will open the envelope, add time to the account (corresponding to the amount of cash sent), and then use a shredder to destroy the envelope and its non-money contents."

Source: https://mullvad.net/en/help/no-logging-data-policy/#payments

Re:Mullvad VPN was subject to a search warrant by panick21_ on Thursday April 20, 2023 @09:44AM (#35639787)
Wait what? If you go to the post office and pay with your debit card, how exactly do they figure out who you are based on the stamp?
Re:Mullvad VPN was subject to a search warrant by daveoc64 on Thursday April 20, 2023 @10:43AM (#35640840)
There's no evidence they're actually doing that, it's just possible that they could.
Re:Mullvad VPN was subject to a search warrant by digging on Thursday April 20, 2023 @02:16PM (#35643965)
Possible, quite easy, and certainly of political value. But, you know, maybe they're not.
Re:Mullvad VPN was subject to a search warrant by callahad on Thursday April 20, 2023 @10:47AM (#35640909)
It's all metadata correlation.

The UK will know with certainty that a specific stamp was used to send a specific envelope to Mullvad. (e.g., America has been logging images of every envelope that passes through its postal service for over two decades).

It would also be trivial for the UK to know:

- When and where that stamp was initially sold (and to whom, if buying online!)

- When and where an envelope bearing that stamp entered the postal system

- When and where envelopes with other stamps from the same booklet entered the postal system

Add up enough bits and you can pierce anonymity.

Re:Mullvad VPN was subject to a search warrant by sgjohnson on Thursday April 20, 2023 @12:41PM (#35642641)
And all of this is null and void if you buy your stamps from aliexpress and for the low low effort of simply driving to a different city to throw the envelope into the postbox.
Re:Mullvad VPN was subject to a search warrant by saberience on Thursday April 20, 2023 @01:24PM (#35643231)
Not really very realistic is it though? I can only imagine this sort of thing is only done if the suspect is someone like Bin Laden, not the average Joe using a VPN for pirating Photoshop.
Re:Mullvad VPN was subject to a search warrant by jjav on Thursday April 20, 2023 @01:44PM (#35643509)
> Not really very realistic is it though? I can only imagine this sort of thing is only done if the suspect is someone like Bin Laden, not the average Joe using a VPN for pirating Photoshop.

This is a misconception caused by the scale of surveillance today. In the old days you were right. To do this kind of tracing they'd have to assign someone to do it which takes human resources and is not infinitely scalable. So they'd only do it to people deemed interesting enough, so average Joe was safe.

Today the scope has changed completely. Everything can be correlated all the time, so it is. No suspicion or probable cause needed.

Re:Mullvad VPN was subject to a search warrant by panick21_ on Thursday April 20, 2023 @06:39PM (#35647484)
To make this happen each stamp would during product have to know where it would will be sold. Is that actually how it works? Can you show me the evidence for that.
Re:Mullvad VPN was subject to a search warrant by netsharc on Thursday April 20, 2023 @11:01AM (#35641166)
If they scan the stamp's code at time of purchase, and associate it with your debit card, that'd be an obvious way of tracking you.

If they don't do that, if they meet the stamp along the letter's journey, they can scan the code and check which batch it's from, and there could be a database of which post office got which batch, and then it's a matter of checking that post office's purchases/security cameras.

If all stamps are indistinguishable from each other, then you could've bought the stamp months ago on the Isle of Skye and used it in London, they wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

Re:Mullvad VPN was subject to a search warrant by chrisdhoover on Thursday April 20, 2023 @09:15AM (#35639459)
They never caught Zodiac
Re:Mullvad VPN was subject to a search warrant by PKop on Thursday April 20, 2023 @09:16AM (#35639463)
How is it not?