Oh, an ad hominem! Nice. I could also work at marketing and hate marketing, doesn't change the point. And of course, I like HN despite it being a "marketing tool", not because of it. The "marketing campaign for YC" part is one of the main things I dislike about it. And the question wasn't whether marketing could ever produce something cool, but If it was that, I could add that I like some funny TV ads too.

>You can keep moving the goalposts of what true marketing is though

Really? As if differentating because some FOSS team making a cool site and promoting their project on some forums, for example, and corporate marketing, with a budget, a marketing department, ads, astroturfing, and all that, is impossible, right? "It's all marketing"