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Re:Sold a Story: How Teaching Kids to Read Went So Wrong by freeopinion on Monday April 17, 2023 @10:42AM (#35601480)
Phonics were all the rage when I was learning to read. I'm sure it helped me in some way for a year or two. Then I spent five years unlearning phonics. For the most part, I learned by rote memorization of spelling lists and by figuring out words from context through a lot of individual reading. My children learned from rote memorization and from context. Every English-literate person I know learned this way. Every less-literate person I know did not learn this way.

I would like to say that English is most definitely not phonetic. But this is not really true. In any particular word, there are usually some phonetic landmarks. If there are enough of these that you can identify you can try to use them as fingerprints against your entire oral vocabulary filtered by context to identify that word. Then you rote memorize it.

As I write this I'm listening live to a British person saying things like "no-us" and "repo-uh" (I don't know phonetic symbols well enough to represent this properly). I understand these words to be "notes" and "report" in very much the same way. I pick out phonetic landmarks and filter my vocabulary by context to find words that have matching landmarks. There is an American in the conversation using words like "thanegs" which I understand to be "things" because "thanks" doesn't fit in the context.

Re:Sold a Story: How Teaching Kids to Read Went So Wrong by epiccoleman on Monday April 17, 2023 @10:50AM (#35601623)
Even though it's definitely not sufficient for English spelling, I think it's pretty important to start with phonics. It teaches kids how the alphabet is supposed to work, and to be fair, it does work that way for most of the simple words young readers will encounter.

It's a good little lesson about "ideals" or something too, eventually. It's fun when you get to joke with your kids about how strange the spelling of some words are.

I just watched Megamind for the first time with my two kids yesterday, and some of the humor is based on Megamind constantly mispronouncing words ("school" becomes "shool", "Metro City" is pronounced as one word, like "atrocity", etc). My older son thought that was funny, my younger son didn't get it.

Re:Sold a Story: How Teaching Kids to Read Went So Wrong by tivert on Monday April 17, 2023 @10:59AM (#35601779)
> It's a good little lesson about "ideals" or something too, eventually.

That's a really good point, and also a good lesson for adults thinking about education.

Oftentimes it's actually a pretty bad idea to teach something based on the "ideal" understanding of someone who's already mastered the subject. Teaching a somewhat useful but ultimately faulty method as a stepping stone to mastery is often much better. That can be difficult, though because someone who understands those faults often gets hung up on them, and can't avoid the temptation to reject the stepping stone, in favor of pushing for the learner to take a too-big leap to the "true" understanding.

Re:Sold a Story: How Teaching Kids to Read Went So Wrong by brookst on Monday April 17, 2023 @12:51PM (#35603365)
"Mommy, how come birds can fly and we can't?"

"Well, you see, the universe can be thought of as a quantum foam..."

Re:Sold a Story: How Teaching Kids to Read Went So Wrong by xapata on Monday April 17, 2023 @01:26PM (#35603782)
"If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe" -- Carl Sagan
Re:Sold a Story: How Teaching Kids to Read Went So Wrong by Ialdaboth on Monday April 17, 2023 @12:01PM (#35602685)
Rote memorization messed me so bad it made me miss my first year of elementary school.

Without going phonics thereafter I would probably have ended up as completely illiterate before middle school.

Re:Sold a Story: How Teaching Kids to Read Went So Wrong by euroderf on Monday April 17, 2023 @12:04PM (#35602719)
That's a good term, "phonetic landmarks".