News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:The military loved Discord for Gen Z recruiting. Then the... by javajosh on Saturday April 15, 2023 @12:37PM (#35582179)
> government-corporate propaganda aimed at expanding the surveillance state

I'm one of those people who believes very strongly that Snowden was a hero for exposing grossly illegal and immoral activity, and should be pardoned.

But I do not feel this way about this case. Why? Because the leak did not expose government malfeasance, and therefore wasn't in the interest of the American people. Ordinary anti-espionage rules can and should apply.

Re:The military loved Discord for Gen Z recruiting. Then the... by scythe on Saturday April 15, 2023 @12:49PM (#35582283)
You don't have to support the leaker to oppose expanded social media monitoring back-channels for the intelligence services.
Re:The military loved Discord for Gen Z recruiting. Then the... by javajosh on Saturday April 15, 2023 @01:04PM (#35582416)
I think ICs are already in all the major social media back-ends that a nation hosts. I think that allies (like Israel and the US) regularly trade access to circumvent laws preventing surveillance of own citizens. Meanwhile LEOs of all stripes are already in social media, through the front-door.

The former is abhorrent and should be a big scandal, but it won't be. Snowden showed that Americans simply don't care. Given that signal, why stop?

The latter is actually good, in general. LEOs doing actual police work, joining groups that might be extremist...that's the online equivalent of undercover work, and I think it's good when it's human work.

So, basically I agree that proactive, general IC infiltration of back-ends is wrong, but I think its already happening and won't stop without change of sentiment. LEOs can and should do more human investigation, join groups, get involved, see what they are about - and then leave them alone if they aren't a physical threat. Obviously this can be super problematic (e.g. the FBI vs MLK) but the only alternative is to just sit there and wait for an attack. That's no bueno, either.

Re:The military loved Discord for Gen Z recruiting. Then the... by mjreacher on Saturday April 15, 2023 @01:49PM (#35582829)
If ICs were already all over major social media like Discord, then how did these leaks sit spread around unnoticed for almost half a year? I swear every time this comes up people's critical thinking just vanishes into thin air. Mythologizing intelligence agencies as these omniscient entities only benefits them.
Re:The military loved Discord for Gen Z recruiting. Then the... by javajosh on Saturday April 15, 2023 @02:11PM (#35583051)
Having access, using access, using access to detect threats, and using access to detect leaks are 4 different capabilities. If I was NSA chief I personally would rank "proactive leak detection" far below "proactive threat detection".

As an aside, if lack of critical thinking skills sets you off easily, you are in for a rough ride. It's particularly dangerous because directed at others, it gives you clout in with the wrong people, and directed at yourself contempt can lead to self-loathing and depression.

Re:The military loved Discord for Gen Z recruiting. Then the... by mjreacher on Saturday April 15, 2023 @02:27PM (#35583220)
Parent post doesn't distinguish between those. It just annoys to see people always talking about governmental or corporate bureaucracy but when it comes to intelligence agencies suddenly it's like they're immune to it and become perfect panopticons of information gathering and analysis.
Re:The military loved Discord for Gen Z recruiting. Then the... by dang on Monday April 17, 2023 @03:49PM (#35605637)
Sorry for the offtopicness but could you please email me at [email protected]? I want to send you a repost invite.
Re:The military loved Discord for Gen Z recruiting. Then the... by ihatepython on Saturday April 15, 2023 @02:32PM (#35583263)
> But I do not feel this way about this case. Why? Because the leak did not expose government malfeasance, and therefore wasn't in the interest of the American people. Ordinary anti-espionage rules can and should apply.

It does confirm that Ukraine is losing the war badly, I think it was like 7 Ukrainians dying for 1 Russian. With that knowledge, it seems that continuing to fund this war with a blank check to Ukraine is not in the interests of the American people.

So I feel that this leak was a good thing, from the perspective of the American people, especially if it ends the US funding of this war.

Re:The military loved Discord for Gen Z recruiting. Then the... by cannabis_sam on Saturday April 15, 2023 @03:01PM (#35583536)
>It does confirm that Ukraine is losing the war badly, I think it was like 7 Ukrainians dying for 1 Russian.

Are you referring to the picture with 17k russians vs 71k ukrainians? I thought that was the one that had been edited/falsified…

Re:The military loved Discord for Gen Z recruiting. Then the... by ihatepython on Sunday April 16, 2023 @02:20AM (#35587730)
You are extremely naive
Re:The military loved Discord for Gen Z recruiting. Then the... by cannabis_sam on Monday April 17, 2023 @12:27PM (#35603046)
No, I’ve seen two versions of that image. The one with 71/17 looked most obviously edited to me, but I was asking to get any more substantial confirmation either way.
Re:The military loved Discord for Gen Z recruiting. Then the... by polio on Saturday April 15, 2023 @03:05PM (#35583575)
I don't see how the ratio of dead Ukrainians to dead Russians is relevant to the utility of winning this war. It can also be construed as an argument for increased funding, because the Ukrainians are losing so badly.

In my view, curtailing Russian expansion is the point of the war, and Ukrainian lives are unfortunately one cost of doing so. It's important that Ukrainians are participating in the war of their own volition; the US is not paying Ukrainians to join the battle, unlike the scenario with the ANA in Afghanistan.

Even if the leak produces good outcomes, it should still be prosecuted as espionage, since there was no good faith motivation for the leak.

Re:The military loved Discord for Gen Z recruiting. Then the... by ihatepython on Sunday April 16, 2023 @02:19AM (#35587723)
The war itself is illegal. Congress never authorized the war. Exposing illegal activity of the US government should not be a crime.
Re:The military loved Discord for Gen Z recruiting. Then the... by dragonwriter on Sunday April 16, 2023 @02:36AM (#35587806)
> Congress never authorized the war.

The US aid to Ukraine that is the relation of the US government to the war is, in fact, authorized by Congress. See, e.g., the Ukraine Democracy Defense Lend-Lease Act of 2022 (PL 117-118).

Re:The military loved Discord for Gen Z recruiting. Then the... by clouddrover on Sunday April 16, 2023 @02:32AM (#35587794)
> The war itself is illegal

Yes, Russia's invasion of Ukraine is illegal. It's a war of choice waged for reason no better than Putin's vanity. It hasn't helped Russia and it certainly hasn't helped Ukraine.

Fortunately, it is within Russia's power to end the war tomorrow. All Russia needs to do is leave Ukrainian territory, return relocated Ukrainian citizens, start paying reparations, and begin the process of extraditing war criminals so they can be tried.

Re:The military loved Discord for Gen Z recruiting. Then the... by clouddrover on Saturday April 15, 2023 @08:55PM (#35586217)
> It does confirm that Ukraine is losing the war badly, I think it was like 7 Ukrainians dying for 1 Russian.

No:

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/13/world/europe/ukraine-russ...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/03/14/did-the-ukr...

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-war-already-wit...

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65260672

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/04/14/...

> With that knowledge

What you call "knowledge" here is, in fact, just lies.

It's interesting how susceptible people have become to falsehoods in the internet age. People get told what they want to hear and they believe it wholeheartedly, not matter how untrue it is.

Re:The military loved Discord for Gen Z recruiting. Then the... by ihatepython on Sunday April 16, 2023 @02:16AM (#35587719)
None of the sources you listed are credible.
Re:The military loved Discord for Gen Z recruiting. Then the... by clouddrover on Sunday April 16, 2023 @02:23AM (#35587748)
Sorry, but the factual world does not correspond to your fantasy world. You're going to have to grow up and learn to see the world beyond your computer screen.

You've become internet siloed. It's rotting you.

Re:The military loved Discord for Gen Z recruiting. Then the... by javajosh on Sunday April 16, 2023 @01:25PM (#35592148)
Out of curiosity, what do you think credibility is? How do you think it is acquired? Do you think you have credibility? If so, why?

Personally I don't find it odd that someone might reject "mainstream reality" as not credible. But what is odd are the things they often choose to replace it. E.g. 4chan ramblings or general internet randomness. It's like, be super skeptical, fine, but you don't get to be selective. You can't say the BBC is shit but forum22334.hackerville.ru is credible and be taken seriously.