Many cases I knew, people would have several repeaters and extra routers to extend coverage in big houses, and not set it up correctly in PA/Bridge mode, so peripheral network devices would be locked behind in a separate NAT’ed subnet.

I've dealt with this a ton trying to help troubleshoot people's home network problems during the early days of COVID WFH. [1] Some of the absolute messes I'd see were astounding, and they thought everything worked fine because all their phones and Apple TVs and kids PCs running Steam could all get to their cloud stuff fine, so why couldn't their company laptop talk to the printer they brought home and plugged into the "router" in the basement?

[1] Not something we'd /normally/ do, but when that was going on... You just had to get people working.

Can we at least consider that the solution to poorly designed technology is not more poorly designed technology?

If users can't set up routers and extenders properly, that may say more about the designers of the routers than the people using them.

I'm nominally an expert user, but a lot of these products make me WTAF regularly.

We can consider it, but Miele won’t. Their problem is connecting your washer to your phone and going through the cloud has other side benefits for them as well, such as telemetry, so here we are and will be.

> What other networks do homes have? Every WiFi ISP router I have used provides a single network and DHCP server. Perhaps some routers provide both a public and private WiFi and the consumer doesn't understand which one they should pick but that is the fault of the ISP.

Think of times when your phone might not have connected to WiFi because you just got home, or are in some random dead spot. Or it just... isn't for a moment.

From the perspective of many consumers, without that always-available-via-cloud central point, it's then "broken".

Put it all in the cloud and so long as the phone and the device can get to "the internet" it'll be working.

But it's trivial to have the app display a message "please connect to your WiFi network"

What if the person has two networks at home? Or ends up on the neighbor's that they sometime use? Or their saved guest network? The user could well think "I am..." whether they are or aren't.

How would the phone know the /right/ network? All it can really know is it can't find the appliance.

> Every WiFi ISP router I have used provides a single network

Actually, many provide multiple SSIDs (5GHz and 2.4GHz). While you’d think these would be interoperable, it’s a massive pain in the ass. IoT devices only have the 2.4GHz antenna. And you want your main devices on 5GHz for speed. If you combine the 2.4 and 5 networks into a single said and let band steering work, IoT devices often don’t place nicely. If they’re separate, then you have to rely on the custom local app to see a server running on the other ssid. Another issue on top of that is apps on iOS will be required to use SSL for HTTP connections, and making sure your washing machine has always up-to-date certificates is also not simple.