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Re:The four-horse race to decarbonise steel by bell-cot on Monday April 10, 2023 @03:45AM (#35510049)
Big picture, yes.

Though they generally need much more power storage/distribution grid construction per GW, to actually deliver a reliable supply to users.

Then you get to countries where the NIMBYs fight tooth & nail over even tiny grid construction projects...

Re:The four-horse race to decarbonise steel by chii on Monday April 10, 2023 @04:27AM (#35510277)
wait till you fight with the NIMBYs on nuclear projects...
Re:The four-horse race to decarbonise steel by bell-cot on Monday April 10, 2023 @09:59AM (#35512384)
Ah. Those fights I mostly put in the same category as "fights with NIMBYs over building new 8-track factories", "fights with NIMBYs over digging the Mississippi-Yukon shipping canal", etc.

(Vs. the NIMBYs are pretty much fine with 100%-carbon steel.)

Re:The four-horse race to decarbonise steel by pydry on Monday April 10, 2023 @06:48AM (#35510926)
Big picture is that theyre not just cheaper but 5x cheaper.

In fact it's so much cheaper that it's even more economic to use solar/wind to synthesize natural gas and burn that to generate electricity.

Never mind all of the cheaper short term storage options (pumped storage, batteries).

And this doesnt even account for the storage nuclear power would need (it's even less economic to use it for load following) or the need for taxpayer indemnification against catastrophe cleanup costs.

Re:The four-horse race to decarbonise steel by m348e912 on Monday April 10, 2023 @07:26AM (#35511124)
>> In fact it's so much cheaper that it's even more economic to use solar/wind to synthesize natural gas and burn that to generate electricity.

Interesting. Never heard of this being done in practice before, do you have references of what you're referring to?

Re:The four-horse race to decarbonise steel by pydry on Monday April 10, 2023 @07:31AM (#35511155)
https://theecologist.org/2016/feb/17/wind-power-windgas-chea...

It's not done in practice because we don't actually have that much spare renewable energy capacity. Whenever renewables power 90%+ of current usage it tends to hit the news. It's not common. 100%+ is pretty much unheard of.

Pretty much every MWh generated by green energy these days is just a MWh of natural gas extracted from the earth that is not burned.

This is a hypothetical solution to solar and wind routinely overproducing what batteries and pumped storage can keep up with.

Re:The four-horse race to decarbonise steel by ZeroGravitas on Monday April 10, 2023 @10:08AM (#35512485)
No one will do this at scale until we stop burning fossil gas.

But as a technology it exists. The early outputs will be for things that can't be replaced with cheap renewable generated electricity, like e-fuels for spacecraft, which Tesla is doing in Texas.