News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Paul Graham is an investor in the company trying to kill ... by jeroenhd on Saturday April 08, 2023 @10:49AM (#35493723)
There are stories about how SpaceX and Tesla have a team of people working around the clock to manage Elon. They supposedly like the money and the image he brings to companies, but need to protect the companies from his influence. This would involve placing people in the office to act like he wants them to, instructing people to react in certain ways, and convincing him that he came up with the ideas these companies end up implementing.

At first I thought this was just a silly internet meme hating on Musk, but now that he reigns over Twitter without a Musk-management team in place, I'm starting to think there may be some truth to that.

Re:Paul Graham is an investor in the company trying to kill ... by schiffern on Saturday April 08, 2023 @11:13AM (#35493993)
>They supposedly like the money and the image he brings to companies, but need to protect the companies from his influence.

This "explanation" doesn't pass the smell test, because the chronology of cause-and-effect is inconsistent.

Elon's companies get successful, which makes him famous... which explains how his companies were successful before he got famous?

Re:Paul Graham is an investor in the company trying to kill ... by btown on Saturday April 08, 2023 @11:40AM (#35494355)
https://www.sitebuilderreport.com/origin-stories/elon-musk is an essential read about Musk's first company Zip2, whose $307 million payday in 1999 set off his ability to be one of the first funders (and only retroactively a founder) of X.com which would become Paypal.

His work at Zip2 was incredibly consistent with his pattern: a person with visionary ideas, an effective prototyper, an incredible ability to sell with smoke and mirrors... but only successful in business to the extent his companies are protected from him:

> ...in early 1996 the firm Mohr Davidow Ventures invested $3 million into the company, on the condition that Musk hand over most of his shares and cede operational control to a seasoned tech executive named Rich Sorkin. Musk was demoted to Chief Technology Officer, and not surprisingly, he hated to see someone else run his own business. But he needed the money to take Zip2 to the next level, so he took the deal.

> The new programmers found that they needed to rewrite most of the software, to make it more efficient. Musk’s DIY approach to coding didn’t include chunking, so he inadvertently created a “hairball”: a tangled mess of code that’s nearly impossible to unravel if anything goes wrong.

> Often he would re-write his programmers’ code after they left work at the end of the day, without telling them of the changes. He was also prone to micro-managing and rudely criticizing his team. Needless to say, they found him difficult to work with.

But Zip2 became vital to the online transition for traditional newspapers and other media. Right place, right time, Musk being actively managed from the very beginning. But he's incapable of recognizing now that he needs that support system.

Re:Paul Graham is an investor in the company trying to kill ... by nostrademons on Saturday April 08, 2023 @11:26AM (#35494182)
He also has a nose for identifying business ideas where there's an actual market, and for sniffing out talent that's already working on those problems effectively.

Musk didn't found PayPal - he founded X.com, a competitor of Confinity (founded by Peter Thiel and Max Levchin), and then Peter Thiel convinced him to merge to reduce competition in the space. His "contributions" to PayPal post-merger were largely limited to trying to convince them to switch from Linux to Windows servers, and bad ideas about software architecture. You can read about this in Levchin's entry in "Founders at Work" [1]

Musk didn't found Tesla. Martin Eberhard and Marc Tarpenning did. Musk came in as one of the first investors and then forced the founders out, then got his role rewritten into a "founder" title with a lawsuit.

Musk did found SpaceX. However, his role was basically that of a talent scout. Early hires like Gwynne Shotwell and Tom Mueller were critical, and he basically poached them from Boeing & TRW.

[1] https://www.amazon.com/Founders-Work-Stories-Startups-Early/...

Re:Paul Graham is an investor in the company trying to kill ... by plorkyeran on Saturday April 08, 2023 @11:20AM (#35494095)
There are many who believe that Paypal was a success in spite of Musk and not because of him, and that was his only pre-fame company.
Re:Paul Graham is an investor in the company trying to kill ... by nostrademons on Saturday April 08, 2023 @11:27AM (#35494193)
He also founded Zip2, although if you're going "Huh? What's that?" it kinda proves the point.
Re:Paul Graham is an investor in the company trying to kill ... by cyanydeez on Saturday April 08, 2023 @11:36AM (#35494306)
He was never a head of any of his companies.

Your smell test also fits a random walk, where hundreds of other tech nerds simply walked into the wrong deals, hallways, etc.

So while I agree there's likely not a walking Elon cleanup crew, the popularity of Elon matches a random momentum that coalesces in American capitalism.

Re:Paul Graham is an investor in the company trying to kill ... by schiffern on Saturday April 08, 2023 @11:54AM (#35494485)
>He was never a head of any of his companies.

I'll be sure to remind people of this (and cite this comment) whenever anyone criticizes Elon Musk for something Tesla/SpaceX does. ;)

Just semantics but I am curious: what business titles do you consider "head" titles?

>also fits a random walk, where hundreds of other tech nerds simply walked into the wrong deals, hallways, etc.

Not really. To explain multiple enormous successes merely by random chance (and what's worse, claiming his odds are lower than average, ie "in spite of him") so vanishingly unlikely that it's a statistical impossibility.

Re:Paul Graham is an investor in the company trying to kill ... by yowzadave on Saturday April 08, 2023 @01:39PM (#35495699)
Well, once you’ve had that first big success, the subsequent ones become much more likely; you now have access to networks of people and money, a measure of notoriety, and chunk of cash that allows you to take numerous risks that others would not.
Re:Paul Graham is an investor in the company trying to kill ... by cyanydeez on Saturday April 08, 2023 @08:54PM (#35499161)
He started none of those companies.
Re:Paul Graham is an investor in the company trying to kill ... by schiffern on Saturday April 08, 2023 @11:03PM (#35499730)
I asked about head-ing, not start-ing. What corporate titles does someone need to "head" a company?

Elon founded SpaceX. That fact is totally uncontroversial, even among critics.

Re:Paul Graham is an investor in the company trying to kill ... by Mountain_Skies on Saturday April 08, 2023 @11:01AM (#35493848)
There are stories about short sellers having teams who constantly post on social media and message boards negative stories about Elon Musk in hopes that it will make their investments in undermining the companies associated with him pay off. But hey, it must be true, as all stories about controversial people are when it reinforces one's need to see that person in a certain light for bias confirmation.
Re:Paul Graham is an investor in the company trying to kill ... by kelipso on Saturday April 08, 2023 @11:15AM (#35494023)
There is no possible way to verify the story unless they come out and admit it and publish reams of evidence along with it.

So it's always going to be given that this fact is true, then that story is more likely to be true. Or given that this one thing is more likely to be true, then that story is more likely to be true.

Saying something is true/false based on news stories is really silly since you can almost never verify the truth of that story. Always going to be more/less likely given this/that.

Re:Paul Graham is an investor in the company trying to kill ... by moneywoes on Saturday April 08, 2023 @11:14AM (#35494002)
See any links?
Re:Paul Graham is an investor in the company trying to kill ... by polished85 on Saturday April 08, 2023 @12:20PM (#35494795)
This is in “I want to believe” territory for people that don’t like Musk. You, me and everyone in this thread knows this but Musk doesn’t?
Re:Paul Graham is an investor in the company trying to kill ... by zeeshanmh215 on Saturday April 08, 2023 @01:39PM (#35495697)
wow, if this is true, then elon seems to be a rowdy and greatest panothi to be ever lived on the Earth.
Re:Paul Graham is an investor in the company trying to kill ... by 88913527 on Saturday April 08, 2023 @02:06PM (#35495990)
How could Elon be unaware this is going on, and not let go of all of these people? Or is this how he wants to engage with his companies? The latter certainly is not a far-fetched idea, a decent proportion of leaders have an ego.
Re:Paul Graham is an investor in the company trying to kill ... by hotpotamus on Saturday April 08, 2023 @02:49PM (#35496364)
I don't have any specific insight into Elon's posse, but isn't the point of surrounding yourself with yes men to manage your perception of reality?